Mr. Ragle, Mr. Goldberg asked you several questions about whether you had processed any crime scene since 1989. Did you retire in 1989?
Would there be any reason why you would be processing crime scenes after you retired from the sheriff's department?
Now, he also asked you whether you personally processed any crime scenes from 1976 to 1989. Let me ask you this: Were you in charge of people who were processing crime scenes during that period of time?
Were you, as one of your responsibilities, involved in reviewing their work in processing crime scenes?
And in the cases that were reviewed can you give me a rough estimate of how many crime scene processing cases you have reviewed between 1976 and 1989?
I really can't give you a number. In--there are two types of reviews that I was involved in. One would be periodic review of a homicide where everybody in the laboratory participated and it was more of a critique and learning experience. On a daily basis I met with the chief deputy Coroner and the chief forensic toxicologist, and on occasion the chief forensic pathologist, and reviewed cases for their completeness in terms of the issuing of the death certificate. So that included scenes that--crimes that included natural deaths, that included other types of deaths, suicides and accidental deaths, and that happened anywhere from two to eight times--eight cases a day for the entire time that I was the director, so I would have to have a calculator to figure out how many cases that involved.
Now, you were asked about certain textbooks and you mentioned references to several journals. I think you mentioned the American Journal of Forensic Science and the Forensic Society Journal from England. Do you subscribe and keep up with those journals?
The journal that is published by the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, yes, I subscribe to that, and as part of the membership in the California Association of Criminalists you receive the British journal.
And do those journals contain articles about new techniques and state of the art techniques used in crime scene processing?
Do textbooks typically keep up-to-date on state of the art or new techniques used in processing crime scenes?
Textbooks are revised periodically and so, you know, the latest edition would have techniques that had been developed since the previous edition, so they are updated, yes.
You were asked some questions about walking into a crime scene and not wearing gloves if you were not getting close to the evidence. Is one of the important considerations that you've looked at in this case is whether or not people should be walking in the crime scene in the first place?
Can you think of any legitimate investigative or forensic purpose served by a police officer going into the crime scene to have his picture taken pointing out exhibits?
Now, you were asked some questions about gloves and the original purpose for wearing protective gear such as gloves, hats and protective footwear, and I believe you testified on cross-examination that originally that was because to prevent communicative diseases being picked up at a crime scene, correct? Are there new purposes that now exist for wearing this kind of protection?
I mentioned the evolution of that, and yes, there are more concerns now with the samples that are being handled for certain types of tests, where trace amounts of materials are going to be detected.
Do you know of any reason why you could not remove a bloodstain from a tile surface by scraping it?
Well, are you familiar with--have you tried to remove blood stains from tile surfaces?
Counsel, we have different types of tile involved here. You have glazed tile, you have Mexican paver tile that are porous, different types of surfaces, so your question is ambiguous.
Have you--are you familiar with removing bloodstains from tile surfaces with porous types of tile?
I don't have any specific recollection of that type of crime scene that I personally was at.
Now, you were asked some questions about waiting until daylight hours to process a crime scene. Did you indicate in your direct testimony that you should--that a crime scene should be processed during the nighttime, entirely processed?
Not entirely. What I indicated is that there are a lot of things that can be done because it is dark, it is advantageous to do certain types of things in the dark.
KEY QUOTEIs there any legitimate investigative or forensic reason to not call a criminalist when you have a crime scene that is at nighttime?
Is there any legitimate investigative or forensic purpose for--when you are dealing with small bloodstains, to not remove the entire stain?
There is--there is no reason not to remove the entire stain, you know, as much as physically possible.
KEY QUOTENow, you were asked some questions about the practice in Los Angeles County to not call the Coroner for whatever period of time. Do you agree that with that--let me rephrase that. Do you have an opinion on whether or not that is a proper practice?
You were asked a question about use of the telephone. Do you know of anyone, any textbook, any source, any police source whatsoever that would suggest that where you have a crime scene with a victim murdered outside her front door that it is okay to use her phone to call in the station?
I don't know of any--anybody that would recommend that or of any printed recommendation.
KEY QUOTENow, you were asked to review a portion of Dr. Lee's book, page 245. I would like you to look at this again.
Let me show you page 245 and ask you to look at the top part of the page prior to the paragraph you were asked to read. What is your understanding of what that is--that particular paragraph or the first part of the paragraph that was read to you, what does that apply to?
It applies to blood that is still wet or clotted and it indicates that this blood is easier to type than dry blood.
Does that refer to any--any type of stains that have already dried and then the police make them wet?
Does that refer in any--anywhere on that page or in that section--to stains that are already dry that the police make wet by virtue of the way--the method they use to collect the blood?
Now, I would like to read to you the last part of that paragraph that Mr. Goldberg read you the first part of and ask you if you agree with this: "Careful documentation of a crime scene is essential before"--
"Careful documentation of a crime scene is essential before beginning to collect evidence. Without documentation of what samples came from where, the serological results will not be of much help in reconstruct can the event. All samples should be placed in appropriate containers and carefully labeled. Blood evidence should be taken to the laboratory as soon as possible after it is collected. The older a dried stain becomes, the fewer are the individualizing--individualizing characteristics that can be tested for in the samples, and the less information will be obtained. Storage of dry blood samples at refrigerator or freezer temperatures often greatly extends the period of stability (And thus typability) of the genetic marker systems." Do you agree with that?
You were asked the questions that there are two sets of photographs which reveal that some pieces of evidence, the envelope and the glove were removed at some point. Do you recall that?
Does the fact that there are two sets of photographs assist you in anyway whatsoever in determining how they got from one position to the other, whether or not they were picked up and placed in a new position or who did that?
Have any materials been provided to you at all indicating that any effort was ever made to try and make that determination?
Mr. Ragle, would you expect that a trained criminalist would be able to see bloodstains on the outside of the Bronco?
In examining the Bronco on the 14th would be able to see if there were any bloodstains on the outside of the door toward the bottom?
I don't know of any--anybody that would recommend that or of any printed recommendation.
I have not seen any documentation at all.
There is no reason not to remove the entire stain, you know, as much as physically possible.
Not entirely. What I indicated is that there are a lot of things that can be done because it is dark, it is advantageous to do certain types of things in the dark.