📄 Direct examination of Larry Ragle (part 4) — Monday, August 21, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\AUG\21\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-LARRY-RA.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 139 of 167

Direct examination of Larry Ragle (part 4)

Witness: Larry Ragle
Examiner: Robert Blasier
Called by: Defense • Date: Monday, August 21, 1995 • Utterances: 45
Defense expert Larry Ragle testified that LAPD criminalists Dennis Fung and Andrea Mazzola were not practicing criminalistics as it should be done at a crime scene. Blasier also walked Ragle through the proper protocols for investigating missing or moved evidence, and began examining the Bronco door sill area with reference to Fuhrman's testimony — only to be cut off by a sustained objection and sidebar when Blasier allegedly mischaracterized Fuhrman's prior statements.
1 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
2 MR. BLASIER:

If it came to your attention that there was a piece of evidence that had been collected in one form and part of that evidence had disappeared at some later time, what is the appropriate response of the investigating agency?

3 MR. GOLDBERG:

Your Honor, that goes beyond the scope of his expertise.

4 THE COURT:

Overruled.

5 MR. GOLDBERG:

No foundation.

6 THE COURT:

Overruled.

7 MR. RAGLE:

It would be, in my opinion, that they should make an attempt to find out why some of the evidence is missing.

8 MR. BLASIER:

You and I discussed the other day the concept of a team approach to processing a crime scene. Do you recall that?

9 MR. GOLDBERG:

Objection.

10 THE COURT:

Overruled. It's foundational.

11 MR. RAGLE:

Yes, we did.

12 MR. BLASIER:

And does that tie into what you were talking about earlier, having the Coroner and the criminalist and the detectives working together?

13 MR. RAGLE:

Yes.

14 MR. BLASIER:

Why is that important?

15 MR. RAGLE:

In a death investigation, it's important to have the three different disciplines involved in the investigation because of their varying levels of expertise. The detective or the police investigator has a particular function. The deputy Coroner is a--what I would consider a scientific investigator, has a specific function that compliments the investigator's knowledge, and the criminalist's job is to come to the crime scene with a knowledge of crime scene reconstruction, a knowledge of the types of evidence that they--that they can look for at different types of crimes and how to collect and maintain that evidence in as close as possible its original condition and in a--there is another person in this team, and I don't think you mentioned--

16 MR. BLASIER:

And who is that?

17 MR. RAGLE:

The field evidence technician or the what some people call the identification investigator.

18 MR. BLASIER:

Incidentally, do you have an opinion as to whether Dennis Fung and Andrea Mazzola, given the manner in which they processed these two crime scenes, whether they were practicing criminalistics if you will?

19 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, your Honor, there's no foundation for that. It's argumentative.

20 THE COURT:

Overruled.

21 MR. RAGLE:

It is my opinion that they were not practicing criminalistics as it should be done at a crime scene.

KEY QUOTE
22 MR. BLASIER:

And how are you using that term, "Criminalistics"?

23 MR. RAGLE:

As a forensic science investigator that is trained and is knowledgeable of the types of evidence, how they should be collected and preserved.

24 MR. BLASIER:

May I have a minute, your Honor?

25 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
26 MR. BLASIER:

Mr. Ragle, assume hypothetically that items of evidence such as the envelope and the glove had been moved in some fashion. Whose responsibility would it be to determine who moved it, how it was moved and why it was moved?

27 MR. GOLDBERG:

Calls for speculation unless he's familiar with LAPD--

28 THE COURT:

Overruled.

29 MR. GOLDBERG:

Also leading.

30 THE COURT:

Overruled.

31 MR. RAGLE:

The responsibility to determine that depends on the timing and when it's noted. If the--if the crime scene criminalist comes to the scene and sees something in one location, and a little bit later, he sees it in another location, it's his responsibility or her responsibility right then to try to find out why or who moved this. If it's discovered through some other method later on through photography, then it's a departmental issue and it would be either the chief criminalist or the director's responsibility to find out, you know, who is moving things unauthorized. And I'll assume this was unauthorized movement at the crime scene, and if--or possibly, the department's if they have that type of follow-up investigation somewhere else in the department.

32 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorney and Defense counsel.)
33 MR. BLASIER:

Now, Mr. Ragle, have you examined the--Mr. Simpson's Bronco in this case?

34 MR. RAGLE:

Yes.

35 MR. BLASIER:

And I'd like to put up People's 197-A.

36 (Brief pause.)
37 MR. BLASIER:

Have you specifically examined the area of the door sill, the bottom area of the doors, the front doors of the car, the area that's below the bottom of the door?

38 MR. RAGLE:

Yes, I have.

39 MR. BLASIER:

Now, let me show you--I want you to assume hypothetically that Detective Fuhrman testified that he observed what appeared to be some blood marks on the bottom area of the door and I want you to assume further that criminalist Fung examined the door sill area in an attempt to identify those marks and circled the three areas that you see on that photograph. Do you have that in mind.

40 MR. GOLDBERG:

Your Honor, misstates the testimony as to Detective Fuhrman's testimony.

41 THE COURT:

Sustained. Sustained.

42 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
43 MR. BLASIER:

I want you to assume hypothetically that Detective Fuhrman testified that he observed four brush-like marks that appeared to be bloodstains on the door sill area of the Bronco.

44 MR. GOLDBERG:

Misstates the testimony, your Honor.

45 THE COURT:

Let me see counsel at the sidebar with the court reporter, please.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (3)

Larry Ragle
It is my opinion that they were not practicing criminalistics as it should be done at a crime scene.
Direct expert condemnation of Fung and Mazzola's crime scene work — the core purpose of calling this witness.
Larry Ragle
They should make an attempt to find out why some of the evidence is missing.
Establishes the standard of care regarding missing evidence, laying groundwork for the defense's evidence-tampering narrative.
Larry Ragle
If the crime scene criminalist comes to the scene and sees something in one location, and a little bit later, he sees it in another location, it's his responsibility or her responsibility right then to try to find out why or who moved this.
Directly addresses the envelope and glove movement, implying Fung failed his basic duty when he observed the discrepancy.

Evidence (2)

People's 197-A
Photograph of Simpson's Bronco, specifically the door sill area of the front doors
introduced for examination of blood mark locations
Informal
The envelope and glove — referenced hypothetically as items that had been moved at the crime scene
discussed as basis for opinion on chain of custody responsibility

Notable Exchanges (2)

Robert BlasierHank GoldbergLance A. Ito
Blasier attempted to frame a hypothetical about Fuhrman's testimony regarding blood marks on the Bronco door sill; Goldberg twice objected that it misstated the testimony, the first drawing a sustain and the second prompting a full sidebar with court reporter.
strategic — prosecution protecting Fuhrman's record
Robert BlasierLarry Ragle
Ragle volunteered that a fourth member — the field evidence technician or identification investigator — belonged on the crime scene team, going beyond Blasier's question.
revealing

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Dennis Fung
expert opinion
Ragle gave the direct opinion that Fung (and Mazzola) were not practicing criminalistics as it should be done — a sweeping professional condemnation from a fellow expert.
⚔ Andrea Mazzola
expert opinion
Named alongside Fung in Ragle's blanket criticism of their crime scene processing.

Objections

8 objections (1 sustained, 6 overruled)
Proceeding 7977 • 45 utterances • Defense witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
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📂 AUG 21, 1995 📄 Direct examination of Larry Ra
AUG 21, 1995 KRT DvH TD