📄 Briefing schedule and witness availability — Tuesday, August 15, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\AUG\15\BRIEFING-SCHEDULE-AND-WITNESS-.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 136 of 167

Briefing schedule and witness availability

Date: Tuesday, August 15, 1995 • Utterances: 52
The court reconvenes without the jury to sort out a dispute over whether Judge Ito has been fully recused from the case or only partially. Marcia Clark requests overnight time to file a written brief on the prosecution's position regarding complete recusal, while Cochran argues the defense needs until 1:30 PM the next day to respond. Ito sets a 9:00 AM deadline for both sides and addresses the jury to explain the delay before dismissing them for the evening.
1 (The following proceedings were held in open court, out of the presence of the jury:)
2 THE COURT:

All right. Back on the record in the simpson matter. Both parties are again present. The jury is not present. Counsel, what's the status of our proceedings?

3 MR. COCHRAN:

If i may, your honor, make it clear, we are back. Judge reid indicated to us to come back. The court will recall, you invited us back because i had asked you earlier this morning or this afternoon to be prepared to tell our jury something so they don't think it's defense's fault we're having this problem. There is some confusion, your honor, because it's my understanding, it's judge bascue's understanding, judge reid's understanding that this was a partial matter where the court felt for appearance sake, you wanted a court to determine the materiality of the admissibility of the tapes, and further, whether or not there was any materiality to possible rebuttal of your wife, captain york. That's how the order was phrased at the outset. The prosecution now claims you're totally recused on this case, it's bye-bye forever. We resist that. That was not the understanding. That's not the way it was. And so we're back for two purposes, to have it clear about--we have a witness on the stand, no. 1. We have a jury that's been out all day brought by this motion they brought. We didn't bring this. And now they've tried to enlarge in scope what we talked about this morning. So this is what's happened, and we have had a lot of misrepresentations all over the place about red herrings and we resent them. There are no red herrings.

4 THE COURT:

Mr. Cochran, let's tone it now. It's late in the day. It's been a difficult day.

5 MR. COCHRAN:

Okay. I know. I know it is. But we still resent. It's not a read herring. Judge, when you talk about perjury, that's not a red herring. So that's all i want to say on that. But that's why we're back. And judge, judge reid asked further--i told him that this afternoon, the original tapes were presented to your honor's clerk and that he can start on those along with the transcript as i understand it.

He asked me to provide our transcript that we're doing, which is i think verbatim--it's not finished--as soon as possible and he's going to start listening. He said he would hope that by friday--he's a little optimistic--that he might be able to get around to the narrow issues as he saw them. And he talked about what your order said. But if it's going to be further than that--see, judge, there's real problem. If there is some attempt by the people at recusal, then different things kick in. They have to agree. The judicial council makes the assignment and those sorts of things. So we need to hear from them where they are so they can tell you to your face what they want to do.

6 MS. CLARK:

Yes. That's why i was surprised that mr. Cochran stood to address the court. I understood that the court had advised the people to come back and advise the court of their position, and i was prepared to do so. We've had extensive discussions upstairs, consulted with appellate attorneys and reviewed the case law as well. What i would like leave of the court to do--excuse me, your honor--is to present the court with our written position in the morning. We have to marshal the cases and the factual basis for it. It would appear based on consultation with everyone that the only road to take is to not to waive any matters in this court and to proceed with a complete recusal from this point forward. I would like the opportunity to brief this further.

7 THE COURT:

You sure you want to do that?

8 MS. CLARK:

This has been the subject of continual and ongoing discussion in the office, your honor, and i'm asking leave of the court for this evening to brief it out and to make sure of our position and to present it to the court tomorrow in a cogent fashion and to solidify the position of the people in this matter.

9 THE COURT:

When do you think you'll be prepared to file that?

10 MS. CLARK:

I would file it by 9:00 A.M. tomorrow morning. I intend to work tonight until it's done. But i wanted an opportunity to talk further with everyone before we adopt this course and it gets set in stone, and if we could have the time tonight to do it, i would appreciate it and present the court with the final position in writing.

11 THE COURT:

All right.

12 MS. CLARK:

Okay. Thank you, your honor.

13 MR. COCHRAN:

May i be heard, your honor? You know what our position is, and i think we need a little more time than that. I mean, it's going to be very difficult. It's 20 minutes to 5:00 now, and to have--we don't know what they're going to do, what--how they may change their position over and over again. I think we need to be a little more certain about this and have perhaps tomorrow afternoon if we're going to do it because i don't know how we can get their brief--because we oppose this, what they're seeking to do.

14 THE COURT:

Well, we're looking at the same issue, aren't we?

15 MR. COCHRAN:

Yes. But i think that from a standpoint of the time, i just think that it--it's 20 minutes to 5:00--that's unreasonable. Except they started on their brief last night. We didn't come here planning to recuse you. So that's a little different. She had a brief back in chambers this morning. You'll recall that. So what i'm saying is, we need at least until 1:30 tomorrow to marshal our forces together to resist what they're trying to do here. And i think that's reasonable.

16 THE COURT:

Well, with the array of legal talent that you have, 1; 2, it's a relatively narrow issue--

17 MR. COCHRAN:

I understand that.

18 THE COURT:

The code section--they're only a handful of code sections that deal with this and the case law exists. It's there for both sides to find. It's easy to digest.

19 MR. COCHRAN:

I understand that clearly, your honor. But we have--some people are not in los angeles who may be coming to los angeles. I'm just indicating to the court we need until 1:30 to adequately be able to brief this tomorrow morning.

20 THE COURT:

All right. 9:00 o'clock.

21 MR. COCHRAN:

9:00 o'clock?

22 THE COURT:

9:00 o'clock.

23 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. What about our jury?

24 THE COURT:

The jury i'm about to bring out, tell them that we have a problem obviously since they've been sitting on ice all day. I will tell them that the problem is personal to me, has nothing to do with the parties at this point. I apologize to them profusely, tell them that stuff like this happens from time to time. I'll tell them about the corollary to murphy's law, and we'll excuse them for the evening.

25 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. Would you consider 10:00 o'clock tomorrow morning?

26 THE COURT:

9:00 o'clock.

27 MR. COCHRAN:

All right.

28 THE COURT:

9:00 o'clock.

29 MS. CLARK:

May i be excused, your honor, so i can go work?

30 THE COURT:

Well, why don't you stick around for--i've got the jury right here.

31 MS. CLARK:

Oh, they're here?

32 THE COURT:

Yeah.

33 MR. COCHRAN:

So we're also clear, what are we doing at 9:00 o'clock so we're clear?

34 THE COURT:

Well, at 9:00 o'clock, i'm going to hear what the prosecution's position is, i'll hear the argument if it's necessary, i'll make a ruling and we'll proceed.

35 MR. COCHRAN:

When you say proceed, let me take one step--proceed with what?

36 THE COURT:

I don't know.

37 MR. COCHRAN:

Let me just follow it out arguendo so we can see.

38 THE COURT:

I don't know.

39 MR. COCHRAN:

All right. We don't need then the witness here tomorrow i presume.

40 THE COURT:

No. I would assume you should have a witness available.

41 MR. COCHRAN:

We should?

42 THE COURT:

But my recollection is, we have miss kestler on 15 minutes' call.

43 MR. COCHRAN:

She'll be available? So, you know--if we're going to be ready to do that, then we should go with the assumption, that we should have miss kestler somewhere available?

44 THE COURT:

Well, you should consider all the options. The options are, either we continue to proceed or, b, we go into hiatus for two weeks and you have a new judge. Those are the two options.

45 MR. COCHRAN:

So i ask until 1:30. All right, judge.

46 MR. NEUFELD:

Your honor--

47 MR. DARDEN:

I'm sorry. On the issue of scheduling, miss kestler informs me she has doctors' appointments in the morning that are very important to her, it's important to her that she make those appointments.

48 THE COURT:

What time?

49 MR. DARDEN:

She indicated to me all morning. Apparently there's more than one. At least, that's my understanding. She had anticipated that her testimony would have been completed well before today or tomorrow. She is--she is i believe upstairs and still in the building if the court wants to hear from her or--

50 THE COURT:

No. Counsel, i accept your misrepresentations of what her problems are.

KEY QUOTE
51 MR. COCHRAN:

She should be here 9:00 clock. They had problems last week.

52 THE COURT:

Well, there are medical problems. Ask her if she can rearrange her appointments, all right, because this is a 6:00 o'clock day. So we still have plenty of sunlight left. All right. Let's have the jurors, please.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Johnnie Cochran
The prosecution now claims you're totally recused on this case, it's bye-bye forever. We resist that. That was not the understanding.
Captures the core dispute — defense argues recusal was partial and limited in scope, prosecution is pushing for full recusal
Marcia Clark
It would appear based on consultation with everyone that the only road to take is to not to waive any matters in this court and to proceed with a complete recusal from this point forward.
Prosecution's formal position: full recusal, not the limited scope the defense understood was agreed upon
Lance A. Ito
The options are, either we continue to proceed or, b, we go into hiatus for two weeks and you have a new judge. Those are the two options.
Ito bluntly lays out the stakes — the trial could be derailed for two weeks pending a new judge assignment
Lance A. Ito
Counsel, i accept your misrepresentations of what her problems are.
A sharp, sardonic rebuke of Darden — Ito signals skepticism about the witness availability excuse while still accommodating it

Evidence (2)

Informal
Audio tapes (original) delivered to Judge Ito's clerk for review by Judge Reid
discussed — Judge Reid to begin review with transcript
Informal
Defense transcript of the tapes (verbatim, not yet complete)
referenced — Cochran asked to provide to Judge Reid as soon as possible

Notable Exchanges (3)

Johnnie CochranLance A. Ito
Cochran repeatedly pushes for a later filing deadline (first 1:30 PM, then 10:00 AM) citing team logistics; Ito holds firm at 9:00 AM each time, even repeating '9:00 o'clock' verbatim as a rhetorical close
strategic — Cochran probing, Ito unmoved
Christopher DardenLance A. Ito
Darden raises witness Kestler's medical appointments as a scheduling conflict; Ito dismisses the concern with a pointed remark about 'misrepresentations' and instructs counsel to ask her to rearrange
dismissive — Ito signals low patience for scheduling excuses
Johnnie CochranMarcia Clark
Cochran objects to Clark's request for overnight briefing time, noting the defense didn't initiate the recusal issue and needs equal time to respond; accuses the prosecution of shifting positions repeatedly
adversarial

Light Moments (2)

Lance A. Ito
Ito tells the jury he will explain the delay using 'the corollary to Murphy's law' — a small touch of levity in an otherwise tense day
Lance A. Ito
Ito keeps the jury waiting in the room while Clark asks to be excused to go work, only for Ito to reveal the jury is already there

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Christopher Darden
implicit credibility challenge
Ito's remark that he 'accepts your misrepresentations' regarding witness Kestler's medical appointments signals disbelief in Darden's account of her availability

Objections

None recorded
Proceeding 7318 • 52 utterances
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 AUG 15, 1995 📄 Briefing schedule and witness
AUG 15, 1995 KRT DvH TD