📄 Recross-examination of Dr. Fredric Rieders — Monday, August 14, 1995
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\AUG\14\RECROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-DR-FRED.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 135 of 167

Recross-examination of Dr. Fredric Rieders

Witness: Dr. Fredric Rieders
Examiner: Marcia Clark
Called by: Defense • Date: Monday, August 14, 1995 • Utterances: 42
Marcia Clark recrosses defense toxicologist Dr. Fredric Rieders on EDTA testing methodology, pressing him on the fact that he never ran his own confirmatory tests on red top tubes or evidence stains. Clark also probes Rieders about a separate Sconce matter involving autopsy tissue testing, and ends with an abrupt attempt to introduce a videotape of autopsy tissue delivery that Rieders dismisses before a ruling can even be made.
1 THE COURT:

Miss Clark.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS. CLARK

2 MS. CLARK:

You mean the readings that Agent Martz obtained in his unpreserved blood, there is no way that those could result from him having a normal diet in which he ingested food that contained the preservative EDTA?

3 DR. RIEDERS:

In my opinion, that's correct. It's no way.

4 MS. CLARK:

So the result that he got is not there, it's unreal; is that right?

5 DR. RIEDERS:

No. I--

6 MR. BLASIER:

Objection. Mischaracterizes his testimony.

7 THE COURT:

Overruled.

8 DR. RIEDERS:

No. I didn't say the result that he got isn't there. It's there on paper. How it got there is the question or what's its source.

9 MS. CLARK:

What are you trying to infer, Dr. Rieders? Are you trying to tell us that you think he added EDTA to his own blood?

10 DR. RIEDERS:

I didn't say that. You did. I said--I don't know what the source is. It could be contamination, it could be a mix up. I seriously doubt that he would add it to it. He's an honest man, not a crook. But any number of ways that this can happen.

KEY QUOTE
11 MS. CLARK:

And then one way that you've just mentioned was through the possible presence of EDTA in a red top tube. Is that one way you've just mentioned?

12 DR. RIEDERS:

That's a possibility. He never checked it out, so it's not ruled out. So that's a possibility.

KEY QUOTE
13 MS. CLARK:

Well, Dr. Rieders, did you ever check it out? Did you ever run any tests on a red top tube to determine whether there were trace amounts of EDTA contained in it?

14 MR. BLASIER:

Objection. Asked and answered.

15 THE COURT:

Sustained.

16 MS. CLARK:

On a red top tube?

17 THE COURT:

He asked if he did any experiments whatsoever, and the answer was no.

18 MS. CLARK:

Doctor, you indicated--you talked a little bit about concentration with counsel. If EDTA is assumed to be present in the evidence and in the reference tube blood and you wanted to prove that the blood on the gate and the sock came from preserved blood as a scientist, wouldn't it be logical to conclude that the concentration should be the same in the evidence and in the reference blood?

19 DR. RIEDERS:

If they are both fresh, yes. If one has been sitting on a fence for various periods of time, wouldn't have to be the same. What I was mainly saying is that you have no clue as to what the concentration is because you never measured how much blood you have.

20 MS. CLARK:

All right. But then you could as a scientist test that hypothesis by doing tests to quantify precisely the amount of blood so you could determine exactly whether the concentration was the same; could you not?

21 MR. BLASIER:

Objection. Argumentative, asked and answered.

22 THE COURT:

Overruled.

23 DR. RIEDERS:

Yes. I said that's what you can do. In my direct, I even said how to do it.

24 MS. CLARK:

Now, Dr. Rieders, if you as a scientist wanted to affirmatively prove the presence of EDTA in evidence stains, you could conduct exactly that form of testing; could you not?

25 DR. RIEDERS:

Well, I could conduct it. If I wanted to prove exactly or approximately, of course, one can do those tests. That's why I proposed them. They are not tests that can't be done.

26 MS. CLARK:

And did you propose that such testing be done on the evidence in this case to counsel, Defense counsel?

27 MR. BLASIER:

Objection.

28 THE COURT:

Sustained.

29 MS. CLARK:

All right. Dr. Rieders, you indicated that you relied on Dr. Henion's report with respect to what tissues he tested; is that correct?

30 DR. RIEDERS:

I'm sorry. Where are we now?

31 MS. CLARK:

We're in Sconce.

32 DR. RIEDERS:

Oh. Yeah. I relied on his report as to what tissues he tested, sure, because that's what he reported as having received and tested. I also relied on Dr. Lovell's letter stating what tissues he sent.

33 MS. CLARK:

All right. And then it's your position that based on your review of that report, that he never tested the tissues taken from the 1985 autopsy; is that correct?

34 DR. RIEDERS:

Yes. That's correct. He says so himself.

35 MS. CLARK:

Would you change your opinion, Dr. Rieders, if I were to show you a videotape of autopsy tissues being delivered to the Defense toxicologist, Brian Finkle?

36 MR. BLASIER:

Objection.

37 DR. RIEDERS:

No.

38 MR. BLASIER:

Objection.

39 DR. RIEDERS:

What's that got to do with it?

KEY QUOTE
40 MR. BLASIER:

Your Honor, may we approach?

41 THE COURT:

Nope. He said no, it wouldn't change his opinion. Proceed.

KEY QUOTE
42 MS. CLARK:

In other words, if you were to be shown--

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Dr. Fredric Rieders
I didn't say that. You did. I said--I don't know what the source is. It could be contamination, it could be a mix up. I seriously doubt that he would add it to it. He's an honest man, not a crook.
A defense expert spontaneously vouching for the integrity of a prosecution witness (FBI Agent Martz) is a striking moment that undercuts any implication of deliberate tampering.
Dr. Fredric Rieders
That's a possibility. He never checked it out, so it's not ruled out.
Rieders acknowledges EDTA contamination from a red top tube is possible but unverified — and then Clark turns it back on him by noting he never checked it out either.
Lance A. Ito
Nope. He said no, it wouldn't change his opinion. Proceed.
Ito shuts down the videotape line of questioning cleanly after the witness already answered, cutting Clark off mid-pivot.
Dr. Fredric Rieders
What's that got to do with it?
Rieders' dismissive reaction to the videotape question reveals confidence in his position — or at least his reading of what testimony he actually gave.

Evidence (5)

Informal
Red top tube (non-preserved blood collection tube) — whether it contains trace EDTA as a possible contamination source
discussed
Informal
Dr. Henion's report on which tissues he tested in the Sconce matter
discussed
Informal
Dr. Lovell's letter indicating which tissues were sent for testing
referenced
Informal
Videotape purportedly showing autopsy tissues being delivered to defense toxicologist Brian Finkle
attempted introduction — witness dismissed relevance, Ito cut off the line
Informal
Blood on the Bundy gate and sock — the core EDTA-positive evidence samples
discussed (concentration comparisons)

Notable Exchanges (3)

Marcia ClarkDr. Fredric Rieders
Clark presses Rieders on whether he ever tested a red top tube himself; Ito sustains the objection by summarizing the prior answer — 'He asked if he did any experiments whatsoever, and the answer was no' — doing Clark's work for her.
strategic
Marcia ClarkDr. Fredric RiedersLance A. Ito
Clark attempts to introduce a videotape of autopsy tissue delivery to challenge Rieders' Sconce testimony; Rieders says 'no' and 'what's that got to do with it' before Blasier can even finish objecting, and Ito closes it down immediately.
abrupt
Marcia ClarkDr. Fredric Rieders
Clark asks Rieders if he proposed additional quantitative EDTA testing to defense counsel, drawing an immediate objection that is sustained — shielding whether the defense chose not to pursue more rigorous testing.
strategic

Light Moments (1)

Marcia Clark / Dr. Fredric Rieders
Rieders asks 'I'm sorry. Where are we now?' when Clark pivots to the Sconce matter, and Clark deadpans 'We're in Sconce.'

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Dr. Fredric Rieders
failure to conduct independent testing
Clark repeatedly establishes that Rieders criticized Agent Martz's EDTA methodology without himself running any confirmatory experiments — no red top tube testing, no quantification of blood volume, no independent analysis.
⚔ Dr. Fredric Rieders
inconsistency via omission
Clark highlights that in the Sconce matter, Rieders relied entirely on Henion's report without verifying what tissues were actually tested — and tries (unsuccessfully) to use a videotape to undermine that reliance.

Objections

6 objections (2 sustained, 2 overruled)
Proceeding 7310 • 42 utterances • Defense witness
Criminal Trial
Department 103
⚖️ Start
📂 AUG 14, 1995 📄 Recross-examination of Dr. Fre
AUG 14, 1995 KRT DvH TD