📄 Stipulations and motions — Monday, April 17, 1995
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C:\DEPT103\CRIMINAL\1995\APR\17\STIPULATIONS-AND-MOTIONS.DOC
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▲ Day 58 of 167

Stipulations and motions

Date: Monday, April 17, 1995 • Utterances: 60
Counsel negotiated a stipulation regarding the accuracy of KABC news camera timestamps from June 13th footage, settling on Coogan's best recollection that his watch — calibrated against the station clock every two to three weeks — is accurate to within 30–40 seconds. Scheck also raised an informal motion demanding KABC outtakes from Bundy to match outtakes already produced from Rockingham, which Ito declined to rule on without formal notice. Ito shut down a third attempt by Scheck to litigate jury instruction language, telling him 'no' four times before ordering him to sit down.
1 THE COURT:

Back on the record. All parties are again present. And counsel, you've had the opportunity to review the VHS version of the tape from KABC news. Mr. Cochran, Mr. Scheck, any comment?

2 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel.)
3 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, we have viewed the tape. It is certainly enlightening. The--in terms of the times, I think it is the best recollection of Mr. Coogan, that in terms of the process by which he sets the time, he doesn't think it would be off by more than thirty or forty seconds. Out of an abundance of caution, but in an estimate that he thinks he doesn't believe would really be accurate, he has indicated it could be off as much as five minutes. Frankly, I think that we should go with his best recollection and stipulate in terms of exactly what he did, that is to say--

4 THE COURT:

Do you want to stipulate or do you want to have a hearing outside the presence of the jury? Mr. Coogan is here with his counsel.

5 MR. SCHECK:

I'm just talking about the times. He submitted an affidavit by saying he could be off by as much as five minutes, but in talking with him, I think the Prosecution will agree that his best estimate is really no more than thirty or forty seconds, so I would rather go with that because I think that is his best recollection.

6 THE COURT:

Mr. Goldberg, what is your position?

7 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, I think we should just go with what he said and we could probably just ask him exactly what he said and then stipulate to that, which is, I believe, that he looks at the clock in the station, which is apparently highly accurate, periodically, and sets his watch by that clock so that his best estimate as to how far off he is is about thirty seconds.

8 THE COURT:

Let me ask you this: Do we have a stipulation or do we have to put something on the record?

9 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, we never had an opportunity to discuss it with counsel.

10 MR. SCHECK:

Sounds like we agreed on the time.

11 MR. GOLDBERG:

That is his best recollection, but out of an abundance of caution, it could conceivably be off by as much as five minutes.

12 MR. SCHECK:

I would rather go with what his best recollection of what happened is, rather than any guesses. That is all. I mean, that is what I would propose to stipulate to.

13 THE COURT:

All right. Is that stipulation acceptable to the People, the thirty to forty seconds?

14 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
15 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, I would rather have what the actual truth is and then perhaps maybe we should have a little hearing on that issue, if the Court wants to, or--

16 (Discussion held off the record between the Deputy District Attorneys.)
17 THE COURT:

Do you want to call Mr. Coogan out of order in front of the jury to lay the foundation?

18 MR. GOLDBERG:

Well, maybe if counsel and I sit down with Mr. Coogan we can come up with an exact precisely worded stipulation.

19 THE COURT:

Mr. Coogan, come on up, and counsel, your name for the record.

20 MR. PERRY:

Steven Perry from Munger, Tolles and Olson, your Honor.

21 THE COURT:

All right. Good morning, counsel. All right. Counsel, why don't you confer with Mr. Coogan and see if we can save some time here.

22 (Discussion held off the record between Defense counsel, Prosecution counsel, Mr. Perry and Mr. Coogan.)
23 THE COURT:

All right. Mr. Goldberg, Mr. Scheck, have we agreed upon a stipulation regarding the time stamp?

24 MR. SCHECK:

I believe we have, your Honor.

25 THE COURT:

Mr. Goldberg.

26 MR. GOLDBERG:

Yes. The proposed stipulation is that Mr. Coogan be deemed to have been called, duly sworn and testified that he makes it his practice to check his personal watch, his wristwatch, against the station clock, which he does every two to three weeks, and sets them, that when he does this, that he notices that he is off by no more than thirty to forty seconds, that he told the camera woman on June the 13th, who shot the videotape images that we are going to be showing, to set the camera's clock and that it was set against his watch, that the items--that the various clips are in sequence and that the clock and the camera continues to run after the camera is off.

KEY QUOTE
27 MR. SCHECK:

Umm--

28 THE COURT:

All right. Is that stipulation acceptable to the Prosecution? I mean, excuse me, to the Defense?

29 MR. SCHECK:

Yes.

30 THE COURT:

All right. Then that is accepted by the Court, and Mr. Goldberg, you are going to offer that stipulation before the jury; is that correct?

31 MR. GOLDBERG:

Yes.

32 THE COURT:

All right.

33 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, before Mr. Perry and Mr. Coogan leave, we had subpoenaed footage and outtakes from Bundy and we have some concern about selective production. We would ask that the Court order KABC to turn over to us their outtakes from Bundy if they are going to be turning over the outtakes from Rockingham. I think in the interest of getting to the truth here, I would ask the Court to order them to turn over their outtakes from Bundy.

34 THE COURT:

Well, that would be in the form of a formal motion on written notice, et cetera, et cetera. I am not inclined to do that without formal motion.

35 MR. PERRY:

Thank you, your Honor.

36 THE COURT:

Outtakes being a hot topic of litigation.

KEY QUOTE
37 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, when we subpoena them, we don't get them, but these are turned over. I mean, I just think in fairness--

38 THE COURT:

Well, counsel, I agree with you that maybe there is an issue here.

39 MR. SCHECK:

Okay.

40 THE COURT:

You need a noticed motion before I start.

41 MR. SCHECK:

Well, this just came up.

42 THE COURT:

Okay. You've got counsel's card.

43 MR. SCHECK:

I do.

44 MR. COCHRAN:

I do.

45 THE COURT:

You know where to find him.

46 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, I have one more motion.

47 THE COURT:

Thank you, counsel. Thank you, Mr. Coogan.

48 MR. SCHECK:

One more request before the jury is brought back, and that is, I took a look at the Court's proposed charge with respect to the page 4 of the Rockingham checklist as you wrote it and made one--two small additions concerning the fact that--

49 THE COURT:

All right. Counsel, I indicated that we are going to take up these matters on Wednesday.

50 MR. SCHECK:

Your Honor, if I may, I would ask you to peruse this and take a look at it for this reason--

51 THE COURT:

Counsel, we are going to discuss it on Wednesday. That is the end of the subject.

52 MR. SCHECK:

Can I have this alternative marked and I would like to make this record?

53 THE COURT:

No; Wednesday.

54 MR. SCHECK:

It won't take very long. It will take a few minutes.

55 THE COURT:

Mr. Scheck, I'm going to tell you for the fourth time, no. Sit down.

KEY QUOTE
56 MR. SCHECK:

All right.

57 THE COURT:

Let's have the jury.

58 (Brief pause.)
59 MR. GOLDBERG:

Your Honor, we would like a copy of the tape with the counter, if we might do so, but I think only the Court's copy has that.

60 THE COURT:

All right. Who has the actual physical custody of that? Mrs. Robertson, do you have that tape now?

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Lance A. Ito
Mr. Scheck, I'm going to tell you for the fourth time, no. Sit down.
Captures Ito's firm control of the courtroom against Scheck's persistent attempts to raise matters scheduled for Wednesday.
Lance A. Ito
Outtakes being a hot topic of litigation.
Wry judicial understatement acknowledging the contested nature of media outtakes throughout the case.
Barry Scheck
We would ask that the Court order KABC to turn over to us their outtakes from Bundy if they are going to be turning over the outtakes from Rockingham. I think in the interest of getting to the truth here, I would ask the Court to order them to turn over their outtakes from Bundy.
Defense raises selective production concern — Rockingham footage being disclosed but not Bundy crime scene footage, suggesting a potentially asymmetric record.
Hank Goldberg
The proposed stipulation is that Mr. Coogan be deemed to have been called, duly sworn and testified that he makes it his practice to check his personal watch, his wristwatch, against the station clock, which he does every two to three weeks...
The formal stipulation establishing timestamp reliability for KABC footage critical to the timeline.

Evidence (3)

Informal
KABC news VHS tape with camera timestamp from June 13th, shot by Coogan's camera operator
Stipulation negotiated as to timestamp accuracy (30–40 seconds)
Informal
KABC outtakes from Rockingham already produced to defense
Referenced as basis for Scheck's demand for matching Bundy outtakes
Informal
Rockingham checklist, page 4 — proposed jury charge language
Scheck attempted to raise additions; Ito deferred to Wednesday

Notable Exchanges (3)

Barry ScheckLance A. Ito
Scheck repeatedly tried to raise proposed jury instruction additions despite Ito having already scheduled the matter for Wednesday. Ito refused four times before ordering Scheck to sit down.
tense
Barry ScheckHank GoldbergMr. PerryMr. Coogan
Off-record conference to hammer out precise stipulation language on camera timestamp accuracy, resolving the 30–40 second vs. 5-minute discrepancy from Coogan's affidavit.
procedural
Barry ScheckLance A. Ito
Scheck raised KABC Bundy outtakes informally; Ito acknowledged there may be a fairness issue but required a formal noticed motion.
strategic

Light Moments (2)

Lance A. Ito
After Scheck asks for Bundy outtakes, Ito remarks drily: 'Outtakes being a hot topic of litigation.'
Lance A. Ito
Ito tells Scheck he has KABC counsel's card and knows where to find him, deflecting the informal motion with a practical brush-off.

Objections

None recorded
Proceeding 5724 • 60 utterances
Criminal Trial
Department 103
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📂 APR 17, 1995 📄 Stipulations and motions
APR 17, 1995 KRT DvH TD