Re-redirect examination of photography expert

📄 Re-redirect examination of photography expert — Wednesday, January 15, 1997

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1997\JAN\15\RE-REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-PHO.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 42 of 57

◀ Direct examination of photography expert (part 2) Direct examination of Gregory Matheson ▶

Examiner: Peter Gelblum
Called by: Defense • Date: Wednesday, January 15, 1997 • Utterances: 53

Defense attorney Leonard conducted a brief recross of the photography expert, attacking his methodology on two fronts: that he never physically tested his theory about Simpson's foot position, and that he analyzed Harry Scull's camera technique without ever directly asking Scull about it. Leonard then attempted to raise the Bundy footprint issue but was cut off at sidebar, drawing laughter when the objection was sustained. The proceeding closed with admission of Plaintiffs' Exhibits 2357-2373 and a transition to Gregory Matheson.

# 1 A:

Yes. It appears to me they are.

# 2 MR. GELBLUM:

Nothing further, Your Honor. RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. LEONARD:

# 3 Q:

When you made this determination about the natural and appropriate position of Mr. Simpson's feet, did you actually try to walk like that and see if your heel would be flat on the ground, sir, and your foot was up like that? Did you try to do that?

# 4 A:

No, sir.

# 5 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection, misstates the evidence about flat on the ground. This witness said it wasn't.

# 6 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 7 Q:

(BY MR. LEONARD) Now, you went through this demonstration here about how Harry Scull loaded the film that day, where he was pointing the camera. You have no idea where he loaded the film or how he was pointing the camera, do you, sir?

# 8 A:

Based on my analysis of the photograph, yes.

# 9 Q:

Did you -- you actually interviewed Harry Scull? You talked to him, didn't you?

# 10 A:

I did not interview him. I talked to him, yes.

KEY QUOTE

# 11 Q:

You never asked him that, did you?

# 12 A:

No, I did not.

# 13 Q:

Now, you know, sir, don't you, that there's an issue in this case regarding some footprints that were left behind at the Bundy crime scene? Do you know that, sir?

# 14 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection, beyond the scope.

# 15 MR. LEONARD:

I'll make it up.

# 16 MR. PETROCELLI:

No. I want to know now.

# 17 MR. LEONARD:

Okay. Let's go.

# 18 MR. GELBLUM:

I want an offer of proof.

# 19 MR. LEONARD:

Let's go.

# 20 MR. PETROCELLI:

I guess we're going, Your Honor.

# 21 MR. LEONARD:

Well, you want to know.

# 22 MR. KELLY:

So we'll go. (The following proceedings were held at the bench with the reporter:)

# 23 MR. LEONARD:

I guess it's my turn. I just want to ask him if he knows that that's an issue in this case with regard to the footprints, and the fact that it just so happens there's a portion of the -- of the sole that's visible on the shoe that's not visible on the other shoes. That's all I want to ask him.

# 24

THE COURT: I'll sustain the objection to that. (Laughter.) (The following proceedings were held in open court in the presence of the jury.)

# 25 MR. LEONARD:

No further questions.

# 26 MR. GELBLUM:

Nothing further.

# 27 MR. LEONARD:

Your Honor, at this point I have no further questions.

# 28 THE COURT:

Thank you.

# 29 MR. GELBLUM:

Nothing further until tomorrow, if that comes to pass.

# 30 THE COURT:

You may step down.

# 31 THE WITNESS:

Thank you.

# 32 MR. GELBLUM:

I'd like to move in various exhibits, if I can find my list. 2369 through 2373, is the list I have. That's from today.

# 33 MR. FOSTER:

Yesterday, starting at 2357 through 23 --

# 34 MR. GELBLUM:

It's 2357 through 2373.

# 35 THE REPORTER:

Those are all consecutive, right?

# 36 MR. GELBLUM:

Yes.

# 37 THE COURT:

Received. (The instrument previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2357 was received in evidence.) (The instrument previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2358 was received in evidence.) (The instrument previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2359 was received in evidence.) (The instrument previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2360 was received in evidence.) (The instrument previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2361 was received in evidence.) (The instrument previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2362 was received in evidence.) (The instrument previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2363 was received in evidence.) (The instrument previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2364 was received in evidence.) (The instrument previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2365 was received in evidence.) (The instrument previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2366 was received in evidence.) (The instrument previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2367 was received in evidence.) (The instrument previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2368 was received in evidence.) (The instrument previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2369 was received in evidence.) (The instrument previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2370 was received in evidence.) (The instrument previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2371 was received in evidence.) (The instrument previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2372 was received in evidence.) (The instrument previously marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2373 was received in evidence.)

# 38 MR. GELBLUM:

I'm just going to take these away from the stand. (Indicating to exhibits.)

# 39 MR. LAMBERT:

Plaintiffs' call Gregory Matheson, Your Honor.

# 40 THE BAILIFF:

You can retake the stand.

# 41 THE CLERK:

You've been sworn previously and you are still under oath. Would you please state your name again for the record.

# 42 THE WITNESS:

Gregory Matheson.

MR. P. BAKER: Your Honor, I'd like to go to sidebar real quickly on this issue. (The following proceedings were held at the bench with the reporter:)

MR. P. BAKER: I want to object. I'm sorry. You here? I want to object to this. I asked what Mr. Matheson was going to testify to, and he was going to testify about the glove. Now, they're bringing out a Bronco board.

# 43 MR. PETROCELLI:

No, no, no, no. I said many, many times to him, and on the record here when you asked me to lay out the witnesses, that Matheson and the photographers were talking about the second Bronco collection and the gloves. I never --

MR. P. BAKER: That was -- you never said that. I want an offer of proof.

# 44 MR. PETROCELLI:

I'm not capable of making that mistake. Go ahead.

# 45 MR. LAMBERT:

They've done -- Your Honor, they've shown the jury a photograph that was taken on August the 10th that they claim -- this photograph is in evidence, which they claim shows there's no blood in the Bronco on August the 10. We're going to have Matheson point out the blood that he collected, that he can see in this photograph, and four other photographs also taken on August the 10th.

MR. P. BAKER: What date did he collect them?

# 46 MR. LAMBERT:

September the 1st.

MR. P. BAKER: That's not relevant.

# 47 MR. LAMBERT:

They put the photograph in.

# 48 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 49 MR. PETROCELLI:

We'll be dismissing the three photographers that were on the list; Carmaney, Taggert and Wilson. We've stipulated as to the photos.

# 50 THE COURT:

Okay.

# 51 MR. PETROCELLI:

So we only have a couple of witnesses after today. I don't think we're going to be here very long.

# 52

THE COURT: Good. (The following proceedings were held in open court in the presence of the jury.) DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LAMBERT:

# 53 Q:

(BY MR. LAMBERT) Morning, Mr. Matheson.

Temperature

light

Key Quotes (3)

Mr. Leonard

Did you actually try to walk like that and see if your heel would be flat on the ground, sir, and your foot was up like that? Did you try to do that?

Challenges the expert's 'natural position' analysis as purely theoretical — he never tested it on his own body.

Witness

I did not interview him. I talked to him, yes.

Distinction between 'interview' and 'talk' undermines the rigor of the expert's methodology on Scull's camera technique.

Mr. Leonard

I'll make it up.

Sardonic response when asked for an offer of proof on the footprint question — drew laughter and ended the line of questioning.

Evidence (3)

Plaintiffs' 2357-2373

Photography exhibits from the proceeding, spanning two days of testimony

admitted into evidence

Informal

Photograph taken August 10 allegedly showing no blood in Bronco

discussed at sidebar in connection with upcoming Matheson testimony

Informal

Harry Scull photographs — basis of expert's camera analysis

discussed

Notable Exchanges (2)

Mr. Leonard•Mr. Gelblum•Mr. Petrocelli•Judge Fujisaki

Sidebar eruption over Leonard's attempt to raise Bundy footprints; multiple plaintiffs' attorneys object simultaneously; judge sustains, drawing laughter in open court.

chaotic, then comedic

Mr. P. Baker•Mr. Petrocelli•Mr. Lambert•Judge Fujisaki

Defense objects to Matheson testifying about a Bronco board, claiming surprise; Petrocelli insists he disclosed Matheson and photographers were covering 'second Bronco collection and gloves'; court overrules.

tense, strategic

Light Moments (1)

Mr. Leonard

Leonard responds to demand for an offer of proof on the footprint question with 'I'll make it up,' triggering laughter in the courtroom after the objection is sustained.

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Photography expert (unnamed)

failure to test own theory

Expert admitted he never physically tried walking in the foot position he claimed was 'natural and appropriate' for Simpson.

⚔ Photography expert (unnamed)

methodology gap

Expert analyzed Harry Scull's camera loading and pointing technique from the photograph alone, without ever directly asking Scull how he handled the camera that day.

Objections

2 objections (1 sustained, 1 overruled)

Proceeding 8807 • 53 utterances • Defense witness

Civil Trial

Department 103