Redirect examination of Ron Phillips (part 2)

📄 Redirect examination of Ron Phillips (part 2) — Tuesday, October 29, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1996\OCT\29\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-RON-PH.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 5 of 57

◀ Sidebar: Fuhrman motive and bias Sidebar: Levis jacket evidence ▶

Witness: Det. Ronald Phillips
Examiner: Dan Leonard
Called by: Defense • Date: Tuesday, October 29, 1996 • Utterances: 154

Defense attorney Dan Leonard cross-examines LAPD Detective Ron Phillips about his actions at the Bundy crime scene. Leonard establishes that Phillips' observations — including seeing only one glove — were based solely on a cursory walk-through, and draws out that Fuhrman returned to the house alone to 'take notes' after the West L.A. team was relieved. The examination ends with a notable question about an unaccounted-for Levi's jacket observed in Nicole's kitchen.

# 1 (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury.)

# 2 Q:

(BY MR. LEONARD) Now, you testified on direct -- direct examination that at approximately 1 o'clock or so, you received a call from Sergeant Rossi, correct?

# 3 A:

Yes.

# 4 Q:

And thereafter, you made calls to Detective Fuhrman, Detective Roberts, and Detective Noland; is that correct?

# 5 A:

Yes.

# 6 Q:

And you said that you related -- I thought you said that you related basically the same thing; you related that Sergeant Rossi told you about the situation to each of those detectives; is that right?

# 7 A:

That we've got a double homicide, yes.

# 8 Q:

Okay. You also said in direct, in your direct testimony, that when you spoke to -- was it Gartland? Did you call him, as well, right about that time?

# 9 A:

No, sir. I called him at 2:39 in the morning.

# 10 Q:

Okay. Who else did you call at the same time that you called these detectives, if anyone?

# 11 A:

I did. On the way to -- may I explain?

# 12 Q:

Sure.

# 13 A:

Okay. We have trainees that want to experience homicide scenes, so we have a list that are not actually on call, but they want to come out if they can, if they're available. So I called three different people besides the three that I had called that work for me to come out and assist. And all three turned me down.

# 14 Q:

Not only did you tell Detective Fuhrman in that telephone conversation that you had a double homicide, you told him that it may involve the ex-wife of O.J. Simpson, right?

# 15 A:

Yes.

# 16 Q:

Okay. And what response, if any, did he have to that, sir?

# 17 A:

Said he'd meet me at the station.

# 18 Q:

Did he say anything to you at that time about having been involved with O.J. Simpson and Nicole Brown Simpson at any time in the past?

# 19 A:

No.

# 20 Q:

So he -- let me make sure -- is your memory clear on that, by the way?

# 21 A:

Yes.

# 22 Q:

So you then traveled to the station, right?

# 23 A:

Yes.

# 24 Q:

And you waited for Detective Fuhrman there?

# 25 A:

I got there about five minutes before he did.

# 26 Q:

And one of the things you did is, you gathered together materials you needed in order to process the crime scene, or at least to do your detecting at the crime scene?

# 27 A:

We have homicide kits that we put in the trunks of cars.

# 28 Q:

You described some of the items in your direct examination that were in the homicide kit.

Can you go through that again real quickly for us?

# 29 A:

Well, we have rechargeable flashlights that are at the station, and they're in rechargeable receptacles, so they're charged when we need them in the middle of the night. So we go back to our homicide room, get our flashlights, get our notebooks, a map if we needed to find out where we're going. And our homicide kits basically stay inside our cars; they're assigned to us. So the homicide kit is always in the car. But flashlights and stuff like that stay charged in the station, not in the car.

# 30 Q:

Okay. In the homicide kit, there are items such as gloves and plastic bags and so forth, right?

# 31 MR. MEDVENE:

Objection. Relevance, materiality, outside the scope.

# 32 THE COURT:

You opened the door.

# 33 Q:

(BY MR. LEONARD) Isn't that right, sir?

# 34 A:

There are plastic surgical gloves that we have for that we put on our hands, yes.

# 35 Q:

And there are also plastic bags of various sizes, aren't there?

# 36 A:

Plastic, paper.

# 37 Q:

Okay.

# 38 A:

All sizes and shapes.

# 39 Q:

My question is, weren't there plastic bags there?

# 40 A:

Yes.

# 41 Q:

You added paper?

# 42 A:

I apologize.

# 43 Q:

There are also swatches in the kit; is that right?

# 44 A:

No.

# 45 Q:

You sure about that?

# 46 A:

I don't have any swatches in mine.

# 47 Q:

Do you know if any detectives --

# 48 A:

I'm sure there are some detectives that may have swatches. I don't have any swatches in my homicide kit.

# 49 Q:

Why don't you tell the jury what a swatch is, sir.

# 50 A:

It's a little clip of material.

# 51 Q:

And what's it used for?

# 52 A:

Obtain evidence, picking up evidence, picking up blood.

# 53 Q:

Is it primarily used to pick up blood evidence, sir?

# 54 A:

It certainly is.

# 55 Q:

Now, when you arrived at the Bundy crime scene, you parked down at the intersection of Dorothy and Bundy, right, south of the crime scene; is that right?

# 56 A:

I believe I parked south of the crime scene. And if I remember correctly, I parked -- I turned right on Dorothy and parked on the south side of Dorothy, east of Bundy.

# 57 Q:

That would be at the southern end of the alley that runs behind the Bundy residence, right?

# 58 A:

No. I said I parked on the east side of Bundy, on the south side of Dorothy. But when I came up northbound on Bundy, I made a right turn and parked on the south side of Dorothy, east of Bundy.

# 59 Q:

Okay. You were met by Sergeant Rossi, who then transferred you to Officer Riske, correct?

# 60 A:

He didn't transfer me.

# 61 Q:

He directed you to?

# 62 A:

He called Officer Riske over to me because I asked who was the officer that had been there the longest and knew the most about the case.

# 63 Q:

And you did a very cursory walk-through of the scene at that point?

# 64 A:

Yes.

# 65 Q:

You did very little detecting, if any, at this point, right?

# 66 A:

I rarely do any detecting; I'm a supervisor. I do an initial walk-through; I see what's there; and then I assign someone to that case.

KEY QUOTE

# 67 Q:

Would you agree with me that, actually, up until the point you were relieved in this case, that is, that you were told that robbery/homicide division would take over, that you did absolutely nothing, other than a cursory walk-through?

# 68 A:

That's correct.

# 69 Q:

Do you remember that?

So when you were asked before, you know, whether you saw bloody footprints inside the residence, or whether there was ransacking and so forth, that was based on absolutely nothing, other than a cursory walk-through, correct?

# 70 A:

That's correct.

# 71 Q:

All right. Same thing with regard to whether there were two gloves at the scene, right?

# 72 A:

Only one glove was pointed out to me at the crime scene.

# 73 Q:

My question is that your testifying in front of this jury that there was only one glove that you saw, was based on absolutely nothing other than a cursory walk-through, right?

# 74 A:

There was only one glove at the crime scene.

KEY QUOTE

# 75 Q:

Can you answer my question, sir?

# 76 A:

I'm answering it. There was only one glove at the crime scene that I saw.

KEY QUOTE

# 77 MR. LEONARD:

Your Honor, can I ask that the witness be directed to answer my question.

# 78 THE COURT:

Answer his questions.

# 79 DET. RONALD PHILLIPS:

I'll answer your question again.

# 80 Q:

What part of it didn't you understand?

# 81 A:

I'd like you to repeat it.

# 82 Q:

Isn't it true, sir, that when you told this jury that you only saw that you -- you only saw one glove, that there weren't two gloves at the scene, that it was based on absolutely nothing other than a cursory walk-through; isn't that true sir?

# 83 A:

That's correct.

# 84 Q:

Now, you described what you did in this walk-through, and you went into the residence with whom? Who did you say you went into the residence with?

# 85 A:

Officer Riske and Detective Fuhrman.

# 86 Q:

Okay. And was there anyone else with you?

Just those two; is that right?

# 87 A:

Inside the residence?

# 88 Q:

Right.

# 89 A:

On the initial walk-through, yes.

# 90 Q:

And you did the initial walk-through; you came outside. And Detective Fuhrman came out with you, right?

Detective Fuhrman and Officer Riske came out and you exited after the initial walk-through; isn't that right?

# 91 A:

Yes.

# 92 Q:

There's no question about that in your mind?

# 93 A:

He was with me the whole time, until we were through with take walk-through, so he exited when I exited.

# 94 Q:

Yeah, he came out with you?

# 95 A:

Yes, he did.

# 96 Q:

Okay. And you didn't see Detective Roberts when you were in the residence, right?

# 97 A:

Detective Roberts came at about 2:30 that morning.

# 98 Q:

Okay.

# 99 A:

I saw him in the alley.

# 100 Q:

My question was, when you went -- when you were in the residence with Detective Fuhrman in the initial walk-through, you didn't see Detective Roberts, right?

# 101 A:

No, I didn't.

# 102 Q:

You didn't see him until he was outside in the alleyway?

# 103 A:

At about 2:30, yes.

# 104 Q:

So you did the initial walk-through; you came out with Fuhrman and Riske, and you were informed that you were being taken off the case, or at least you were informed that you might be taken off the case?

# 105 A:

There was a discussion, and Lieutenant Spangler made that decision and informed me that was his decision. He's my commanding officer. And I made the necessary phone calls to relieve us of that investigation.

# 106 Q:

Okay. And you said, yeah; you made a couple of phone calls. And now, Fuhrman was still outside with you, right?

# 107 A:

I think at that time Fuhrman had possibly walked back into the house through the garage.

# 108 Q:

How do you know that?

# 109 A:

Because I saw him walk him in through the garage. He told me he was going to go into the house and take some notes, write his notes.

# 110 Q:

Did he go in by himself?

# 111 A:

I believe so.

# 112 Q:

Okay. And then at some point, you had to go back in to retrieve Detective Fuhrman, right, after you were relieved?

# 113 A:

Chronological order: Detective Roberts then showed up and asked me where Detective Fuhrman was. And I told him he was in the house. And he went in the house, and then Detective Fuhrman, after I was relieved of the case, walked in and informed both of them that the case was no longer ours, and that we were leaving the residence.

# 114 Q:

Okay. You all came out together?

# 115 A:

All walked out together and walked back to Bundy and Dorothy.

# 116 Q:

Okay. You walked around and you came around front, right?

# 117 A:

Correct.

# 118 Q:

You made no stops?

# 119 A:

No.

# 120 Q:

Okay. And by the way, when you saw Detective Fuhrman -- well, let put this it this way: Every time you saw Detective Fuhrman that day, he was in short sleeves, right?

# 121 A:

Yes.

# 122 Q:

Yeah. In fact, it would be uncommon for him to have a jacket on, wouldn't it?

# 123 A:

I think I said that in the trial; he had a habit of not wearing jackets.

# 124 Q:

Right. In fact, that's something that would stick out in your mind, if he was wearing a jacket, right?

# 125 A:

I asked him to put his jacket on a lot of times. But he didn't have it on.

# 126 Q:

You didn't on this occasion, did you?

# 127 A:

No, I didn't ask him to put it on in.

# 128 Q:

Your memory is clear on this point, that he was in short sleeves the whole time that you saw him, correct?

# 129 A:

To my knowledge, every time I saw him, he had no jacket on.

KEY QUOTE

# 130 Q:

You told us on direct examination that after you came out with Roberts and Fuhrman and walked around back to Bundy, you all went down to the intersection of Dorothy and Bundy, correct?

# 131 A:

Yes.

# 132 Q:

And I think the words you used were that you "stood down," right?

# 133 A:

We were no longer going to do an investigation, so we just -- the investigation was over, as far as West L.A. Homicide was concerned.

# 134 Q:

Okay.

# 135 A:

It was just a term, "stood down."

# 136 Q:

What that means is, you guys just -- you stood around and you waited for somebody to show up and decide what, if anything, you were going to do, correct?

# 137 A:

Waiting for robbery/homicide detectives.

# 138 Q:

I forgot one thing and my esteemed seem colleague has reminded me.

When you were back in the kitchen in your initial walk-through, did you notice a Levis jacket or jeans-type jacket in the kitchen?

# 139 A:

I believe it was on a counter.

# 140 Q:

Okay.

# 141 A:

And I can't tell you which counter it was on.

# 142 Q:

But it's something you noticed when you did the walk-through, right?

# 143 A:

I, in the back of my mind, remember something about a jacket or a Levis jacket someplace in that house.

# 144 Q:

Was that --

# 145 A:

It was in the kitchen area of the house.

# 146 Q:

Was that something that was pointed out to you by Officer Riske?

# 147 A:

I don't know if he pointed it out to me or I just observed it, but I did see it.

# 148 Q:

Do you know if anybody photographed the jacket?

# 149 A:

I didn't do anything with photographs, sir.

# 150 Q:

Do you know if anyone ever collected the jacket?

# 151 MR. MEDVENE:

Objection. Relevance, materiality.

# 152 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 153 MR. LEONARD:

May I be heard, Your Honor?

# 154 THE COURT:

You may.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Ron Phillips

I rarely do any detecting; I'm a supervisor. I do an initial walk-through; I see what's there; and then I assign someone to that case.

Phillips concedes he did virtually nothing substantive at the scene, undermining his direct testimony observations.

Ron Phillips

There was only one glove at the crime scene that I saw.

Phillips insists on this claim even as Leonard presses him to acknowledge it was based solely on a brief walk-through.

Ron Phillips

He told me he was going to go into the house and take some notes, write his notes.

Phillips confirms Fuhrman re-entered the Bundy residence alone after the West L.A. team was relieved — a key point for the defense's theory about evidence planting.

Ron Phillips

To my knowledge, every time I saw him, he had no jacket on.

Establishes Fuhrman was in short sleeves all night — relevant to whether he could have concealed the Bronco glove on his person.

Evidence (3)

Informal

Homicide kit contents: surgical gloves, plastic bags, paper bags, possible swatches

discussed — Phillips denies having swatches in his kit

Informal

Single glove observed at Bundy crime scene during walk-through

discussed — Phillips maintains only one glove was present

Informal

Levi's/denim jacket observed on counter in Nicole's kitchen

discussed — never photographed or collected per Phillips; question about collection was sustained as irrelevant

Notable Exchanges (3)

Dan Leonard•Ron Phillips

Leonard repeatedly presses Phillips to admit his glove testimony was based on nothing more than a cursory walk-through. Phillips resists by restating the substance ('There was only one glove'), prompting Fujisaki to direct him to answer the actual question.

strategic

Dan Leonard•Ron Phillips

Leonard establishes that after the West L.A. team was relieved, Fuhrman walked back into the Bundy residence alone to write notes, before eventually emerging with Roberts and Phillips.

revealing

Dan Leonard•Ron Phillips

Leonard closes by asking about a Levi's jacket in Nicole's kitchen that Phillips vaguely recalls — Medvene objects and the question about collection is sustained, cutting off the line of inquiry.

strategic

Credibility Attacks (2)

⚔ Ron Phillips

concession extraction

Leonard gets Phillips to admit that all of his crime scene observations — including seeing only one glove — were based on a brief, cursory walk-through during which he did 'absolutely nothing' of substance.

⚔ Mark Fuhrman

opportunity establishment

Leonard uses Phillips to confirm that Fuhrman re-entered the Bundy residence alone after the West L.A. team was relieved, establishing an unsupervised window of access to the crime scene.

Objections

2 objections (1 sustained, 1 overruled)

Proceeding 8067 • 154 utterances • Defense witness

Civil Trial

Department 103