Direct examination of Detective Berris

📄 Direct examination of Detective Berris — Thursday, November 7, 1996

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C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1996\NOV\7\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-DETECTIV.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 11 of 57

◀ Direct examination of Kenneth Berris (part 2) Jury excusal and scheduling ▶

Witness: Kenneth Berris
Examiner: Daniel Petrocelli
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Thursday, November 7, 1996 • Utterances: 117

The deposition of Detective Berris, a Chicago PD detective who investigated OJ Simpson's hotel room (Room 915, O'Hare Plaza) after the murders, was read into the civil trial record. Berris testified to finding broken glass and a white doily cover in the bathroom sink, and red spots on the bed sheets, but reported no blood anywhere in the room — all detection was by visual observation only, with no chemical or luminol testing performed. The defense used the cross-examination to highlight the investigation's limited forensic methodology.

# 1 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay.

Your Honor, the bad news is, we have a bit more to read. The good news is, we will not be reading depositions for a while.

# 2 THE COURT:

Good.

# 3 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay?

# 4 MR. CALLAN:

I don't take that personally, Mr. Petrocelli.

# 5 (Laughter.)

# 6 MR. PETROCELLI:

No, you're doing a fine job.

Page 50.

# 7 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 8 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 9 MR. PETROCELLI:

Turning to page 52, line 8:

# 10 (Reading:)

# 11 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay.

Going to page 53, the witness is pointing.

# 12 (Reading:)

# 13 MR. PETROCELLI:

Line 14, page 53.

# 14 MR. CALLAN:

Right.

# 15 MR. PETROCELLI:

And going down to line 23.

# 16 (Reading:)

# 17 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 18 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 19 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 20 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 21 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 22 MR. PETROCELLI:

Next page, Steve.

# 23 (Reading:)

# 24 Q:

"What is Berris Exhibit 21?"

"A. This is a photograph of the wash basin, vanity, and the wastebasket in the bathroom of 915. Also shows a -- some paper thrown on the floor -- on the floor, I'll put it that way, in the bathroom.

"Q. And it shows a little more close-up of the glass in the sink?

"A. Yes, it does.

"Q. Now, is there anything else in the sink besides the glass?

"A. There's a white cover. I call it a white doily cover. Oftentimes you see them on drinking glasses in the hotel rooms, sort of shows that they're not -- they're fresh, they haven't been used.

"Q. And You found the white doily in the sink?

"A. Yes. Along with the broken glass and pieces of glass.

"Q. Did you notice any blood or red spots that you thought might be blood in the sink?"

# 25 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 26 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 27 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 28 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 29 MR. PETROCELLI:

. Next.

# 30 (Reading:)

# 31 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 32 MR. PETROCELLI:

Moving over to page 63:

# 33 (Reading:)

# 34 Q:

"What I want to make clear is, I'm asking you, did you find chips of glass?

"A. Oh, yes, I did.

"Q. Where did you find them?

# 35 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 36 MR. PETROCELLI:

Line 24. And line 22.

# 37 (Reading:)

# 38 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 39 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 40 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 41 MR. PETROCELLI:

Over to page 66.

# 42 (Reading:)

# 43 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 44 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 45 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay. Page 68.

Can you read the answer on page 68, line .

# 46 MR. CALLAN:

68 line 6.

# 47 (Reading:)

# 48 MR. PETROCELLI:

Go to page 69, Steve.

# 49 (Reading:)

# 50 MR. CALLAN:

Geez, I'm sorry. Excuse me, Mr. Leonard.

# 51 MR. LEONARD:

On the okay

I think that was inadvertent.

# 52 MR. PETROCELLI:

Yeah, that was.

# 53 MR. LEONARD:

But your apology is accepted.

# 54 MR. CALLAN:

Thank you.

# 55 MR. PETROCELLI:

He was apologizing to me.

Can you read the answer on line 13?

# 56 (Reading:)

# 57 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 58 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 59 MR. PETROCELLI:

And line 19:

# 60 (Reading:)

# 61 MR. LEONARD:

May we approach?

# 62 MR. PETROCELLI:

I'll withdraw the question.

Skipping over to page 74, line 19. Did you find any laundry bags anywhere in room 915?

# 63 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 64 MR. PETROCELLI:

Page 78. (Reading.)

"Did you find any" -- excuse me. Line 17.

"Did you find any broken pieces or shards of glass or chips of glass on the floor in the bathroom?

"A. No.

"Q. And you found no broken glass anywhere else in this suite of rooms, right?" Page 79. "Is that correct?

"A. Nowhere else in the entire mini suite, other than on the vanity and in the wash basin.

"Q. Did you find anything else in the mini suite of rooms that was broken?

"A. No.

"Q. Do you know what I mean by broken?

"A. Yes.

"Q. Like something else that had been ripped apart or torn apart or broken?

"A. Nothing at all.

"Q. Okay."

# 65 MR. PETROCELLI:

Page 104. Depo Exhibit 22, Steve.

# 66 (Mr. Foster displays Depo Exhibit 22.)

# 67 MR. PETROCELLI:

I'm sorry. Let me read that answer again. (Reading:)

"A. Yes. They appeared to be more centered than at the head or foot."

# 68 MR. PETROCELLI:

Page 107 line 11. (Reading:)

"Q. Did you find any blood stains, blood-stained tissues inside the room?

"A. None.

"Q. Did you find any blood-stained toilet paper at all?

"A. None.

"Q. Did you find any blood drops on the bathroom floor?

"A. None.

"Q. Did you find any drops of blood around the wash basin or the vanity?

"A. None.

"Q. Did you find any drops of blood on the carpet?

"A. None.

"Q. Or next to the bed?

"A. None.

"Q. Or on the telephone?

"A. None.

"Q. Or on the counter where the telephone sits on the bed side table I should say?

"A. None."

# 69 MR. PETROCELLI:

That's it, Your Honor.

# 70 (Mr. Leonard is reading the questions and Mr. Callan is reading the answers of the witness.)

# 71 MR. LEONARD:

Detective Berris.

# 72 MR. CALLAN:

Good morning, Mr. Leonard.

# 73 MR. LEONARD:

A little thinner on the top than last we met.

Okay. If we turn to 110, line 14. (Reading:)

"Q. Let me ask you first of all when you -- did you receive the initial call from LAPD to assist in the investigation of Nicole Brown Simpson and Goldman murders?

"A. I personally did not.

"Q. At some point, shortly after the call was received, you were assigned to take the lead from the Chicago end; is that fair to say?

"A. Yes, I was assigned with Detective Anthony Bojoirno for us together to go to O'Hare Plaza hotel.

"Q. And you were attempting to do as thorough a job as you could in the task that you undertook in the investigation, correct?

"A. Yes.

"Q. And to some extent you were directed by the LAPD, is that fair to say?"

# 74 MR. LEONARD:

Down to "question is read again." It's repeated. Over to 112, line 15. You with me?

# 75 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 76 MR. LEONARD:

Okay. Over to 11, line 1.

# 77 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 78 MR. LEONARD:

Okay. Skipping over to 122, line and I've asked for some answer assistance from Mr. Baker at this point. You ready? (Reading:)

"Q. The photograph which has been marked as Exhibit 16, that represents a, more or less, full shot photographic shot of the bed from the bottom end of the bed. Is that fair to say?

"A. Yes.

"Q. And you've testified earlier that that was the condition that the bed was in when you first entered the room, correct?

"A. Yes.

"Q. And is it fair to say that the best you're able to tell us today with regard to these red spots that you noticed, was that they were somewhere in the middle and they weren't close to the head board. Is that fair to say?

"A. Yes.

"Q. That is fair to say, correct?

"A. Yes.

"Q. Now, let me make sure the question is clear, I'm directing your -- I'm asking you to focus on the location on the bed, not at this point on which sheet or on which pillow case or anything like that, but the location of the spots on the bed. Are you following me?"

"A. Yes.

"Q. You're best recollection today is that these spots were somewhere in the middle of the bed. Not down at one end and not close to the head board; is that correct?

"A. Yes, for the most part they're toward the center of the bed and not at the boot or the head. Although there were some spots on that pillow case or cases -- excuse me. But for the most part, they were centered toward the center of the bed more than at the end.

"Q. I think you testified earlier that there were spots on the bottom sheet and the top sheet?

"A. Yes.

"Q. Okay. Did you make any effort to specifically identify where those spots were or did you ask anyone else to do that by using any kind of diagram or anything like that?

"A. No. That was not done.

"Q. For instance, you were shown an Exhibit earlier that you called a blot or plaque?

"A. Yes.

"Q. I would call it a diagram --

"A. Diagram.

"Q. -- Of the suite, correct?

"A. Yes.

"Q. You did not create any such diagram of the bed to show where the various spots were; is that correct?

"A. No. That was not done.

"Q. You didn't ask anyone to do that?

"A. No.

"Q. Did you make any other, other than to have the spots photographed and other than your visual observations of the spots, do you follow me so far? Did you make any other effort of any kind to try to document where the spots were?

"A. No. Just the descriptions as they were made in the reports.

"Q. That's it?

"A. That's it.

"Q. And now those sheets were ultimately transferred to the LAPD?

"A. Yes.

"Q. What about the pillow cases?"

# 79 MR. LEONARD:

Down to 20 on page --

# 80 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 81 MR. LEONARD:

Over to 128, line 18. (Reading:).

"Now, directing your attention to the portion of the bottom of the glass that's in the basin. Do you see that?"

Could we have 22 up, please?

Mr. Foster, can you do that for me?

# 82 MR. FOSTER:

Yes.

# 83 MR. LEONARD:

Hold on.

Line 22, page 128. Okay. Let me read the question again. (Reading:)

"Now directing your attentioon to the portion of the bottom of glass that's in the basin, do you see that?

"A. Yes.

"Q. Do you recall, when you saw that portion of the bottom of the glass, that there was a milky colored liquid in it? Do you recall that?

"A. There was a small amount of what I described in the criminal trial as a clouded liquid or, by your description, milky colored liquid. That would be a fair description. Very small amount, though.

"Q. What, if any, observations did you make with regard to the bottom of that glass when you saw it in the basin?

"A. It was broken.

"Q. Anything else with reference to whether it -- whether or not it had any type of liquid in it? Did you make any observations?

"A. It had this clouded liquid, a very small amount of that in there, just very small.

"Q. And what was the -- what was -- and what color was the liquid?

"A. Clouded, whitish liquid, not clear.

"Q. Would it, would you agree that that would -- that that liquid would be consistent with the residue of water and tooth paste? Would you agree with that?

"A. It could have been. It could have been.

"Q. Do you know if that liquid was ever analyzed?

"A. It was not analyzed."

# 84 MR. LEONARD:

Over to 131, page 14. (Reading:)

"Are you aware of any attempts by your police department to do any kind of analysis of the sink traps or the toilet or anything like that to determine whether there was the presence of blood in that room?"

"A. That was not done.

"Q. Was there any, your familiar with luminol. Do you know what luminol is?

"A. No I don't think so.

"Q. You do not?

"A. Can't recall.

"Q. Okay. Would it refresh your recollection if I suggested to you that luminol is a chemical that can be spread to detect the presence of blood that is not detectable to the human eye? Have you ever heard of that before?

"A. No, I can't say that I have."

# 85 THE COURT:

It probably be easier on our reporter if you --

# 86 MR. LEONARD:

Slow down.

# 87 THE COURT:

-- Slow down just a touch.

# 88 MR. LEONARD:

Let me read that last one. (Reading:)

"Would it refresh your recollection if I suggested to you that luminol is a chemical that can be spread to detect the presence of blood that's not detectable by the human eye? "Have you ever heard of that before?

"A. No, I can't say that I had.

"Q. Are you aware of any techniques that are available to detect the presence of human blood such as that, in other words, chemical or otherwise, that is not discernible by the human eye?

"A. Not offhand, no.

"Q. And to your knowledge, no such analysis was undertaken of any portion of room 915; is that correct?

"A. Not such as that, no.

"Q. And in fact, the only analysis or examination for blood that was done was simple observation, correct? Isn't that right?

"A. Observation to detect such -- any kind of suspect blood which would be subsequently transported to the crime lab for analysis as such.

"Q. So the answer is the only technique that was used was?

"A. Visual.

"Q. Visual observation?

"A. Yes.

# 89 MR. LEONARD:

I don't have any further questions.

# 90 MR. PETROCELLI:

Your Honor, a few more questions. (Reading:)

"Q. Detective Berris, do you recall there -- you recall a witness in the criminal trial by the defense" --

# 91 MR. CALLAN:

What page are you on?

# 92 MR. PETROCELLI:

Page 133, line 17. (Reading:)

"Q. You were called as a witness in the criminal trial by the defense?

"A. Yes.

"Q. By O.J. Simpson's lawyers?

"A. Yes.

"Q. And analysis an testing of items of evidence, was that beyond your scope of responsibility?

"A. Yes, it is."

# 93 MR. PETROCELLI:

Thank you.

# 94 MR. LEONARD:

Nothing else.

# 95 THE COURT:

Okay.

# 96 MR. PETROCELLI:

Your Honor, at this point in time I'd like to move into evidence the various photographs which I will now read off for the record if I may, please.

Berris depo Exhibit 11 is Exhibit 2151; berris depo, Exhibit 12, 2152; Berris depo, Exhibit 13, 2153; Berris deposition Exhibit 14, 2154; Berris deposition Exhibit 15, 2155.

# 97 (The instrument herein referred to as Berris Deposition Exhibit No. 11 was marked for identification and received in evidence as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 2151.)

# 98 (The instrument herein referred to as Berris deposition exhibit No. 12 was marked for identification and received in evidence as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 2152.)

# 99 (The instrument herein referred to as Berris Deposition Exhibit 13 was marked for identification and received in evidence as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 2153.)

# 100 (The instrument herein referred to as Berris Deposition Exhibit 14 was marked for identification and received in evidence as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 2154.)

# 101 (The instrument herein referred to as Berris Deposition Exhibit 15 was marked for identification and received in evidence as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 2155.)

# 102 MR. PETROCELLI:

Berris depo, Exhibit 16 is already premarked as 1319; Berris depo Exhibit 17, premarked as 1318; Berris depo Exhibit 18, premarked as Exhibit 1317.

# 103 (The instrument herein referred to as Berris Deposition Exhibit No. 16 was marked for identification and received in evidence as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 1319.)

# 104 (The instrument herein referred to as Berris Deposition Exhibit No. 17 was marked for identification and received in evidence as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 1318.)

# 105 (The instrument herein referred to as Berris Deposition Exhibit No. 18 was marked for identification and received in evidence as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 1317.)

# 106 MR. PETROCELLI:

Berris depo Exhibit 19, 2156.

Berris depo Exhibit 20 is Exhibit 2157.

Berris depo Exhibit 21, is Exhibit 2158.

Berris depo Exhibit 22, is premarked as Exhibit 1315.

Berris depo Exhibit 23 is premarked as Exhibit 1316.

Berris depo Exhibit 24 is premarked as Exhibit 1313.

Berris depo Exhibit 26 is Exhibit 2159.

Berris -- that's the last one, 2159 and I would move all these items into evidence.

# 107 THE COURT:

Okay. They're received.

# 108 (The instrument herein referred to as Berris Deposition Exhibit Number 19 was marked for identification and received in evidence as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 2156.)

# 109 (The instrument herein referred to as Berris Deposition Exhibit Number 20 was marked for identification and received in evidence as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 2157.)

# 110 (The instrument herein referred to as Berris Deposition Exhibit Number 21 was marked for identification and received in evidence as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 2158.)

# 111 (The instrument herein referred to as Berris Deposition Exhibit Number 22 was marked for identification and received in evidence as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 1315.)

# 112 (The instrument herein referred to as Berris Deposition Exhibit Number 23 was marked for identification and received in evidence as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 1316.)

# 113 (The instrument herein referred to as Berris Deposition Exhibit Number 24 was marked for identification and received in evidence as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 1313.)

# 114 (The instrument herein referred to as Berris deposition Exhibit Number 26 was marked for identification and received in evidence as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 2159.)

# 115 MR. PETROCELLI:

That concludes the presentation of evidence.

# 116 THE COURT:

Was there a Berris 25?

# 117 MR. PETROCELLI:

That was the same as Berris . And that would preclude the evidence from today and we have our hearing.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (5)

Examiner (Petrocelli direct)

Did you find any blood stains, blood-stained tissues inside the room? A. None. Q. Did you find any blood-stained toilet paper at all? A. None. Q. Did you find any blood drops on the bathroom floor? A. None.

Systematic denial of blood evidence throughout room 915, relevant to whether OJ cut himself in Chicago after the murders.

Examiner (Leonard cross)

Would it refresh your recollection if I suggested to you that luminol is a chemical that can be spread to detect the presence of blood that is not detectable to the human eye? Have you ever heard of that before? A. No, I can't say that I have.

Establishes that the investigating detective was unfamiliar with luminol, supporting the defense argument that the Chicago room was not properly tested for blood evidence.

Examiner (Leonard cross)

So the answer is the only technique that was used was? A. Visual. Q. Visual observation? A. Yes.

Concession that the investigation relied solely on visual inspection — no chemical testing of any kind was performed on the hotel room.

Examiner (Leonard cross)

Do you know if that liquid was ever analyzed? A. It was not analyzed.

The cloudy/milky liquid found in the bottom of the broken glass in the sink was never tested, leaving open the question of what it was.

Examiner (Leonard cross)

You did not create any such diagram of the bed to show where the various spots were; is that correct? A. No. That was not done. Q. You didn't ask anyone to do that? A. No.

Highlights documentation failures — the location of the suspicious red spots on the bed was never mapped or formally recorded.

Evidence (6)

Berris Depo Exhibit 21 / Plaintiffs' 2158

Photograph of the wash basin, vanity, and wastebasket in hotel room 915 bathroom, showing broken glass and white doily cover in sink

discussed, admitted into evidence

Berris Depo Exhibit 22 / Plaintiffs' 1315

Close-up photograph of the glass in the sink

displayed during cross-examination, admitted into evidence

Berris Depo Exhibit 16 / Plaintiffs' 1319

Full photograph of bed from foot end, showing condition of bed when detective first entered room

discussed regarding red spot locations, admitted into evidence

Berris Depo Exhibits 11-15 / Plaintiffs' 2151-2155

Photographs from hotel room 915 investigation

admitted into evidence

Berris Depo Exhibits 17-18 / Plaintiffs' 1318, 1317

Additional hotel room photographs

admitted into evidence

Berris Depo Exhibits 19-20, 23-24, 26 / Plaintiffs' 2156-2157, 1316, 1313, 2159

Remaining hotel room investigation photographs

admitted into evidence

Notable Exchanges (3)

Dan Leonard•Mr. Callan (reading as Berris)

Defense cross-examination establishes that the Chicago PD investigation used only visual observation — no luminol, no sink trap analysis, no chemical testing of any kind. Detective Berris had never heard of luminol.

strategic

Dan Leonard•Mr. Callan (reading as Berris)

Extended questioning about the location of red spots on the bed sheets — defense establishes that no diagram was made, no formal documentation of spot locations was created beyond photographs and written reports.

methodical

Hiroshi Fujisaki•Daniel Petrocelli

Judge noticed the gap in exhibit numbering at the end: 'Was there a Berris 25?' Petrocelli explained it was the same as another exhibit.

routine

Light Moments (4)

Daniel Petrocelli / Hiroshi Fujisaki

Petrocelli announces 'the bad news is we have a bit more to read. The good news is we will not be reading depositions for a while.' Judge responds simply: 'Good.'

Mr. Callan

Mr. Callan says 'I don't take that personally, Mr. Petrocelli,' drawing laughter from the courtroom.

Dan Leonard

Dan Leonard greets the stand-in reader with 'A little thinner on the top than last we met' — a playful jab about hair loss.

Mr. Callan / Dan Leonard / Daniel Petrocelli

Mr. Callan accidentally said something inadvertent and apologized to Mr. Leonard, who graciously accepted; Petrocelli clarified 'He was apologizing to me.'

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Chicago PD investigation (Berris)

omission / inadequate investigation

Leonard methodically established that the Chicago investigation of room 915 used only visual observation — no luminol, no chemical testing of sink traps or toilet, no diagram of blood spot locations on the bed, and the milky liquid in the broken glass was never analyzed. The detective was unfamiliar with luminol entirely.

Witness Demeanor

(Laughter.) — courtroom response to Callan's quip about not taking deposition-reading fatigue personally

(Mr. Foster displays Depo Exhibit 22.) — exhibit shown during cross on broken glass/milky liquid

(Mr. Leonard is reading the questions and Mr. Callan is reading the answers of the witness.) — stage direction clarifying reader assignments for cross

Objections

1 objections (0 sustained, 0 overruled)

Proceeding 8192 • 117 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Civil Trial

Department 103