Redirect examination of Susan Brockbank

📄 Redirect examination of Susan Brockbank — Tuesday, November 5, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1996\NOV\5\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-SUSAN-.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 9 of 57

◀ Afternoon session opening Deposition procedures ▶

Witness: Susan Brockbank
Examiner: Peter Gelblum
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Tuesday, November 5, 1996 • Utterances: 236

Defense attorney Robert Blasier cross-examined LAPD criminalist Mrs. Brockbank about her hair and trace evidence collection chart (Exhibit 464), challenging its completeness and the handling of key evidence items. Blasier pressed on contamination risks — particularly that the Bronco carpet cut-out was stored with the Rockingham glove and knit cap — and on the mold found on Ron Goldman's shirt, suggesting improper preservation. The examination was tightly restricted by sustained objections limiting cross to the scope of direct.

# 1 Q:

Good afternoon, Mrs. Brockbank.

# 2 A:

Good afternoon.

# 3 Q:

Can you tell me how much time you've spent working with the plaintiffs in preparing for your testimony today?

# 4 A:

Altogether, possibly about four hours.

# 5 Q:

And when did you spend that time?

# 6 A:

When?

# 7 Q:

Yes.

# 8 A:

Let's see.

I met with Mr. Gelblum -- sorry -- someone last Friday for about two hours, and I spoke with him on the phone for about an hour and a half. And I met with him today for about a half-hour, twenty minutes, something like that.

# 9 Q:

So was last Friday the first contact you had with the plaintiffs at all about this case?

# 10 A:

Yes.

# 11 Q:

Now, when were you given 464, this chart you have in front of you?

I'm sorry. 464 is the first one you talked about.

# 12 A:

This one?

# 13 Q:

Correct.

When were you given that chart?

# 14 A:

In this form, I think I was either given it yesterday or this morning. I can't remember.

# 15 Q:

Tell me when for -- let's say item number 73 at the top, when did you compare the source documents for the information on this chart now?

# 16 A:

Before coming to court today.

# 17 Q:

And where did you -- where did you get those source documents?

# 18 A:

For that item, I looked at a photograph.

# 19 Q:

What source -- did you look at any source documents?

# 20 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Vague.

Are we still talking about number 73 or the whole chart?

# 21 MR. BLASIER:

I'm talking about 73 first.

# 22 SUSAN BROCKBANK:

For item 73, all I reviewed before coming here today was just a photograph.

# 23 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) You didn't look at any source documentation about the time that that item was collected and how it was checked, did you?

# 24 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Misstates the testimony.

# 25 THE COURT:

I believe her testimony on direct was that it was a photograph of an envelope, so that might be a document.

# 26 MR. BLASIER:

Okay.

# 27 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) What was it a photograph of?

# 28 A:

It was a photograph of the hair kit envelope. And on that envelope, it had the date and Ms. Ratcliffe's name, some other information which I didn't really make note of.

# 29 Q:

Did you evaluate any property report -- look at any property reports and compare the information of property reports with anything on this chart?

# 30 A:

Many things, yes.

# 31 Q:

And how long did it take you to look at all of the source documents for this entire chart and verify that it's all accurate?

# 32 A:

About four hours.

# 33 Q:

And when did you spend that --

# 34 A:

Over the weekend.

# 35 Q:

Now, does this document represent all of the items that are listed or were examined for hair and trace evidence before it was sent to the FBI?

# 36 A:

This document just reflects the collection dates of those items before they were sent to the FBI lab.

# 37 Q:

Were there other times when these items were examined for hair and trace evidence that aren't reflected on this chart?

# 38 A:

Yes.

# 39 Q:

And do you know why those items were left, those dates and times?

# 40 A:

No.

# 41 Q:

Now, you actually do a lot more than just take trace evidence off of an evidence item and put it into a bindle; you do a lot of analysis yourself?

# 42 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Vague point in time.

# 43 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 44 Q:

You did quite a bit of analysis yourself, of hair and trace evidence yourself?

# 45 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Beyond the scope.

# 46 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 47 Q:

Plaintiffs tell you they weren't going to ask you about any work you actually did other than collecting this?

# 48 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Hearsay.

# 49 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 50 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) You examined quite a bit of this evidence for hair and trace evidence other than what's reflected in this chart, correct?

# 51 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Beyond the scope, Your Honor.

# 52 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 53 SUSAN BROCKBANK:

Could you repeat that again? I'm sorry.

# 54 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) So you, yourself, looked at a lot of these items on this chart to do a hair and trace examination at times other than are listed by the collection date, correct?

# 55 A:

Yes.

# 56 Q:

Okay. Now, the carpet -- there was a piece of carpet that had been cut out of the Bronco. Do you recall that?

# 57 A:

Yes, I do.

# 58 Q:

And that was -- a part of that cut-out had a lot of -- part of it was a part of the rubber mat and part of it was part of the carpeting, correct or was it all carpeting?

# 59 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Beyond the scope. It's not one of the items listed on the chart.

# 60 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 61 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) Where did the fibers come from on the -- from the carpets that you have on your chart?

# 62 A:

Can you tell me what you're referring to?

# 63 Q:

Sure. 228, 230, where did they come from?

# 64 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Vague, Your Honor.

# 65 THE COURT:

Excuse me. Where did the fibers come from?

# 66 MR. BLASIER:

Correct.

# 67 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 68 SUSAN BROCKBANK:

They came from various areas in the Bronco.

# 69 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) Okay. So this chart doesn't reflect anything that you did with the cut-out carpet sample that was taken out of the Bronco; is that correct?

Is that accurate?

# 70 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Beyond the scope.

# 71 MR. BLASIER:

How do we know?

# 72 THE COURT:

Overruled.

You used this chart with her. Mr. Blasier has got a right to cross-examine about this chart.

KEY QUOTE

# 73 SUSAN BROCKBANK:

You're referring to item number?

# 74 Q:

I think it was --

# 75 A:

-- 33?

# 76 Q:

I believe.

# 77 A:

Could you say your question again? I'm sorry.

# 78 Q:

Sure.

Item No. 33 was the piece of carpet that was cut out of the Bronco from the floorboard area, correct?

# 79 A:

Correct.

# 80 Q:

And that had a lot of carpet fibers attached to it, didn't it?

# 81 A:

It was a piece of carpet, yes.

# 82 Q:

Those carpet fibers are easily dislodged from that carpeting?

# 83 THE COURT:

We'll move into that. I'll sustain the objection. You may examine to the extent that Mr. Gelblum examined this witness with regards to this chart, how she found it, how she put it in bindles, all that stuff. But beyond that, I'm going to sustain the objection.

# 84 MR. GELBLUM:

Good.

# 85 MR. BLASIER:

Okay.

I'll bring her back.

# 86 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) Mrs. Brockbank, is there anything else at all connected on this chart with anything you did with that piece of carpet from the Bronco?

# 87 A:

No.

# 88 Q:

Is there any evidence item listed on this chart that was stored in the same container, the same box as that piece of carpet from the Bronco?

# 89 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Outside the scope, Your Honor.

# 90 THE COURT:

I don't quite understand that question.

I'll sustain my own objection as to phrasing.

# 91 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) That piece of carpet was kept in the same box as the glove and the knit cap and the cap from the Bronco, wasn't it?

KEY QUOTE

# 92 MR. GELBLUM:

Outside the scope, Your Honor.

# 93 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 94 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) Does this chart reflect the same information that was on the chart that you were asked about in the criminal trial?

# 95 A:

Yes, it does.

# 96 Q:

All of the information that was on the chart in the criminal trial was on this chart?

# 97 A:

I don't believe all of the information is, but some of the information is.

# 98 Q:

What was left off?

# 99 A:

I'd have to look at them side by side to tell you. I can't remember right off the top of my head.

# 100 Q:

Item 33 was left off, correct?

# 101 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Relevance, Your Honor.

# 102 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 103 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) Now, at some point, Mrs. Brockbank, I think it was decided that you would no longer do any analysis on items; they would be sent to the FBI, correct?

# 104 A:

Yes.

# 105 Q:

And what date was that?

# 106 A:

I don't remember the date.

Can I refer to my notes, see if there's something in there?

# 107 Q:

Sure. (Witness reviews documents.)

# 108 SUSAN BROCKBANK:

Could I get the question again?

# 109 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) Sure.

There was a point in time when you were told to stop your analysis and that everything was shipped to the FBI?

# 110 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Hearsay; beyond the scope.

# 111 THE COURT:

Yes. Was there a time when such an event occurred.

Was there such a time?

# 112 SUSAN BROCKBANK:

I performed many different functions throughout this case, and some of those continued after the time stuff went to the FBI.

# 113 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) Okay. Was there a point in time that you were told to stop your analysis on the items listed on this chart?

# 114 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Beyond the scope. We didn't talk about analysis at all, Your Honor.

# 115 THE COURT:

She sent it to the FBI. Mr. Blasier has a right to find out when and how that decision was made.

# 116 SUSAN BROCKBANK:

I do not have a specific date of when I stopped doing anything, but the evidence was taken to the FBI on August 8, so it was sometime prior to that.

# 117 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) Okay. That was a decision made by the D.A.'s office, right? It wasn't your decision?

# 118 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. No foundation.

# 119 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 120 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) Do you know who made that decision?

# 121 A:

No, I don't.

# 122 Q:

It wasn't you, was it?

# 123 A:

No.

# 124 Q:

Looking at item 19 on the chart, which is the Rockingham glove collection date, 6/14, is that the only hair and trace evidence that you recovered from the Rockingham glove?

# 125 A:

I didn't recover item 19 from the Rockingham glove.

# 126 Q:

Is that the only hair and trace evidence that was recovered from that item? Do you know?

# 127 A:

No, it wasn't.

# 128 Q:

How about 110? Does 110 reflect hair and trace from the Rockingham gloves checked on two different dates?

Does that represent all item -- all hair and trace evidence that was collected from the Rockingham glove?

# 129 A:

To the best of my knowledge, I have item 110, and 19 included all the hair and trace that were removed from the Rockingham glove.

# 130 Q:

Describe to me the procedure that you used when you collect trace evidence.

# 131 A:

I start off by picking off any evidence that I can see and placing that into a paper bindle. And when I'm through with that, then I will gently scrape, kind of using my fingers, or just kind of shake the item over a piece of paper, to see if anything additional falls off. And that would also go into the bindle.

# 132 Q:

Don't you take substantial precautions that the room that you're working in has no air currents in it?

# 133 A:

Our room doesn't have any swift air current in it.

# 134 Q:

That's very important, because hair and trace evidence can easily be dislodged from an item, can't it?

# 135 A:

It depends on a lot of factors.

# 136 Q:

It can get easily dislodged, can't it?

Some of the items you testified about, you found debris in the bags that the item was contained in, rather than the item itself?

# 137 A:

Correct.

# 138 Q:

It's very easy for that type of material to come off those items, particularly when they're in a bag, correct.

# 139 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Vague, "very easy."

# 140 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 141 SUSAN BROCKBANK:

I don't know how easy it would be, but with an item in a bag, there's an abrasive action of that item inside the bag which may cause the item to become dislodged.

# 142 Q:

And every time that you examine an item, you also dump out the bag, as well, to see whether there's debris in the bag, don't you?

# 143 A:

Every time I examine a new item? Is that what you mean?

# 144 Q:

Yes.

# 145 A:

Yes, I do. I look inside the bag and see if there's anything stuck. I kind of reach in and take out anything additional that I see.

# 146 Q:

By the way, did you find a rose/beige carpet fiber on item No. 113, the knit cap?

# 147 A:

I did not make a note of any type -- you know, specific types of fibers I removed from any items. The hairs and fibers were removed from several items, including that cap.

# 148 Q:

And you did no analysis to look at that to see what was in it?

# 149 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Beyond the scope, Your Honor.

# 150 THE COURT:

You may answer yes or no.

# 151 SUSAN BROCKBANK:

No.

# 152 Q:

Exhibit 2142, which was the property report -- do you have that in front of you -- from the coroner's office, the list of items from the coroner's office?

# 153 A:

Yes, I do.

# 154 Q:

You have no personal knowledge about the manner in which the items described on that report were collected, do you?

# 155 A:

No; I didn't collect them.

# 156 Q:

And you have no personal knowledge of who collected them, correct?

# 157 A:

Well, I wasn't there when they were collected. But on the envelopes, I did see the name of the person that collected some of the items, Claudia Ratcliffe.

# 158 Q:

All right. And you have no knowledge about whether items on this list were comingled at any time, do you, prior to the time they got to your lab?

# 159 A:

I have no personal knowledge because I wasn't there. I only have personal knowledge of what I saw myself.

# 160 Q:

Now, you're familiar with the procedure that's used to properly preserve bloody clothing, are you not?

# 161 A:

Yes.

# 162 Q:

And when clothing that's bloody has been recovered from a crime scene, is it always dried first before it's packaged? Right?

# 163 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Beyond the scope.

# 164 MR. BLASIER:

Foundational, Your Honor.

# 165 THE COURT:

Okay. Overruled.

# 166 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) That's a proper way to do it, isn't it?

# 167 A:

Yes, that's the proper way to do it.

# 168 Q:

You don't wrap it up until it's dry, correct?

# 169 A:

Correct.

# 170 Q:

And when you opened the package that had Mr. Goldman's shirt in it that you referred to in the chart here, it was clear to you that that had not been properly preserved; isn't that correct?

# 171 A:

It had some mold growth on it, which indicated to me that it was wet at some point, enough to cause mold to grow.

KEY QUOTE

# 172 Q:

Okay. That indicates it wasn't properly preserved by someone, correct?

# 173 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Relevance, Your Honor.

# 174 THE COURT:

Sustained. The mold growth may stay.

But you're asking her to draw a conclusion. I sustain that objection.

# 175 MR. BLASIER:

I --

# 176 THE COURT:

That's beyond the scope.

# 177 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) The chart indicates that the item number 13, the sock hair and trace was collected on August 4 of 1994, correct?

# 178 A:

Yes.

# 179 Q:

Is that the first time that item was examined for hair and trace evidence?

# 180 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Foundation.

# 181 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 182 SUSAN BROCKBANK:

That was the first and only time I examined that item for trace evidence.

KEY QUOTE

# 183 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) Did those socks have a lot of dirt on them, or small amount, or any?

# 184 A:

I don't recall them being particularly dirty.

# 185 Q:

And the Bundy glove wasn't particularly dirty, either, was it, having dirt crusted on it or anything like that?

# 186 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Compound: "Particularly dirty" and then "dirt crusted."

# 187 THE COURT:

Overruled. I think the witness understands the question.

# 188 SUSAN BROCKBANK:

I don't recall at this point how dirty or nondirty it was, to be honest.

# 189 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) Do you have any record you could look at to make that determination?

# 190 A:

No, I didn't make a note in any of my notes that reflect how dirty or not dirty it was, either.

# 191 Q:

Well, you said that you -- that you recovered some trace evidence from that. What did you recover?

# 192 A:

I believe mainly hairs and fibers.

# 193 Q:

Okay. No dirt, that you recall?

# 194 A:

Not that I recall, but there may have been some. I don't know.

# 195 Q:

Well, do you keep a record of what it is that you collect from something?

# 196 A:

I usually write general descriptions, like hairs and fibers, hairs, fiber and debris. Debris would include dirt, and I don't believe I wrote anything about debris over on the Bundy glove.

# 197 Q:

Okay.

# 198 THE COURT:

Excuse me. That's the Bundy glove?

# 199 MR. BLASIER:

Yes.

# 200 SUSAN BROCKBANK:

I could refer to my notes.

# 201 MR. BLASIER:

Sure.

# 202 SUSAN BROCKBANK:

I'm sorry. For the Bundy glove, I did make a mention of debris removed from that item.

# 203 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) How much?

# 204 A:

I didn't put any quantity down.

# 205 Q:

You have any recollection of whether it was a large quantity or a small quantity?

# 206 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Vague.

# 207 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 208 SUSAN BROCKBANK:

I don't recall what quantity it was.

# 209 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) By the way, trace evidence such as hair and fiber can get moved from one place to another fairly easily, can it not?

# 210 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection. Beyond the scope; calls for speculation.

# 211 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 212 Q:

(BY MR. BLASIER) Do you know whether there was ever a survey done of the Bundy area that determined how common fibers from Mr. Simpson's Bronco might have been dragged from there by his kids, by a dog, by any other mechanism?

# 213 MR. GELBLUM:

Objection, Your Honor.

# 214 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 215 MR. BLASIER:

That's all I had.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. GELBLUM:

# 216 Q:

One question, Mrs. Brockbank.

You said in collecting the evidence, one of the things you do is use your fingers to get hair and trace evidence off the items of evidence; is that right?

# 217 A:

Yes.

# 218 Q:

Do you wear gloves when you do that?

# 219 A:

Yes, always.

# 220 MR. GELBLUM:

Thank you. Nothing further.

# 221 MR. BLASIER:

Subject to recall.

# 222 THE COURT:

Okay. You're excused, subject to recall.

# 223 SUSAN BROCKBANK:

Thank you.

# 224 THE COURT:

Call your next witness.

# 225 MR. KELLY:

If we could have one moment, Your Honor.

# 226 THE COURT:

You may.

# 227 MR. KELLY:

Your Honor, at this time, it will be a videotape deposition of an out-of-state witness of Brenda Vernich.

# 228 THE COURT:

Okay.

# 229 MR. BLASIER:

Your Honor, I have one further question for Mrs. Brockbank. May I have her back for one quick question?

# 230 MR. KELLY:

You're not going to recall her?

# 231 MR. BLASIER:

Yeah, we'll recall her.

RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BLASIER:

# 232 Q:

Mrs. Brockbank, with respect to the knit cap on the chart, was that sent to the FBI, the bindles that you made?

# 233 A:

The bindles that I made and the cap itself.

# 234 MR. BLASIER:

All right; thank you. That's all.

# 235 MR. GELBLUM:

Nothing further.

# 236 THE COURT:

Okay. Thank you.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Brockbank

It had some mold growth on it, which indicated to me that it was wet at some point, enough to cause mold to grow.

Acknowledges Goldman's shirt showed signs of improper preservation, supporting defense contamination narrative.

Brockbank

with an item in a bag, there's an abrasive action of that item inside the bag which may cause the item to become dislodged.

Concedes that trace evidence can transfer within packaging, a key contamination vector.

Blasier

That piece of carpet was kept in the same box as the glove and the knit cap and the cap from the Bronco, wasn't it?

Attempts to establish cross-contamination between Bronco carpet fibers and key evidence items — sustained as outside scope.

Brockbank

That was the first and only time I examined that item for trace evidence.

Confirms the socks (item 13) were examined for trace only once, in August — weeks after collection.

Fujisaki

You used this chart with her. Mr. Blasier has got a right to cross-examine about this chart.

Judge pushes back against Gelblum's repeated scope objections, signaling limits of his own restriction.

Evidence (10)

464

Chart showing collection dates of hair and trace evidence items before shipment to FBI lab

discussed, cross-examined for completeness

2142

Property report from the coroner's office listing collected items

discussed; witness acknowledged no personal knowledge of collection circumstances

Informal

Item 19 — Rockingham glove, hair and trace collection date 6/14

discussed

Informal

Item 110 — second Rockingham glove hair and trace collection

discussed

Informal

Item 113 — knit cap, hair and trace evidence including possible rose/beige carpet fiber

discussed; sent to FBI with bindles

Informal

Item 33 — carpet cut-out from Bronco floorboard

referenced; Blasier attempted to establish co-storage with glove and knit cap, sustained as outside scope

+ 4 more

Notable Exchanges (4)

Blasier•Gelblum•Fujisaki

Blasier repeatedly tried to establish that the Bronco carpet cut-out was stored with the glove and knit cap; Gelblum objected as outside scope each time; Fujisaki sustained but also pushed back on excessive scope restrictions.

strategic

Blasier•Brockbank

Blasier elicited that Goldman's shirt had mold, indicating it was packaged wet — improper preservation — but Fujisaki sustained the objection to drawing the ultimate conclusion.

revealing

Blasier•Brockbank

Brockbank initially said she made no note of debris on the Bundy glove, then corrected herself after reviewing her notes to confirm debris was recorded.

revealing

Gelblum•Brockbank

On redirect, Gelblum asked a single clarifying question confirming Brockbank always wore gloves when handling evidence with her fingers.

strategic

Credibility Attacks (3)

⚔ Brockbank

incomplete preparation

Blasier established that Brockbank spent only four hours reviewing source documents over the weekend before testifying, and received the chart itself only the day before or the morning of testimony.

⚔ Brockbank

scope of chart challenged

Blasier showed the chart omitted dates of other hair and trace examinations she personally conducted, and that at least one item (item 33, the Bronco carpet) from the criminal trial chart was left off.

⚔ LAPD evidence handling

improper preservation

Brockbank confirmed Goldman's shirt showed mold, indicating it was packaged while wet — a violation of proper bloody clothing preservation protocol.

Witness Demeanor

(Witness reviews documents.)

Objections

28 objections (14 sustained, 7 overruled)

Proceeding 8144 • 236 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Civil Trial

Department 103