📄 Cross-examination of Gregory Matheson — Monday, November 4, 1996
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1996\NOV\4\CROSS-EXAMINATION-OF-GREGORY-M.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 8 of 57

Cross-examination of Gregory Matheson

Witness: Gregory Matheson
Examiner: Robert Blasier
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Monday, November 4, 1996 • Utterances: 30
Tom Lambert conducted a brief redirect examination of LAPD criminalist Gregory Matheson, addressing two topics raised on cross: the packaging of biological evidence items in the serology department, and the visibility of blood on O.J. Simpson's dark socks. Matheson explained that despite being stored together in one box, each item was individually wrapped, and that blood on the black socks was nearly invisible without laboratory lighting and careful eye adjustment.
1 THE COURT:

Redirect?

2 MR. LAMBERT:

Thank you, Your Honor.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. LAMBERT:

3 Q:

Now, Mr. Matheson, there was some discussion during your cross-examination about the evidence items being packaged in a box in the serology department, the various evidence items from this case.

How were those items contained inside the box?

4 A:

Okay. What we were talking about are the items that have the biological evidence on them that are freezer storage, and they were kept in one large box for simplicity. But each item inside is packaged individually or independently.

To give you an example, I've described before the process of doing the swatches and placed inside a bindle, and the bindle placed inside an envelope, just a small manila envelope. Then all of those envelopes, because they were going into a larger box, were placed into another envelope, not sealed, but just placed there so that they could be easily found.

And items like clothing items that are a little bit larger, they are put into closed paper bags. And items such as the carpeting, because it's kind of large and won't fit into a paper bag, a large piece of butcher paper is used to enclose it or wrap the evidence inside of it.

5 Q:

So is each item of evidence separately wrapped --

6 A:

Yes.

7 Q:

-- in its own container?

8 A:

Yes.

9 Q:

Also, you were asked some questions about the examination by Colin Yamauchi on August the 4th of the socks. This was after your June 29 meeting. When you inventoried the items, did you, yourself, after June 29, ever do an examination of the socks?

10 A:

Yes, I did.

11 Q:

And about when was that; do you remember?

12 A:

I believe that was in mid-September.

13 Q:

Okay.

And on that occasion, how did the socks appear to you when you first looked at them?

14 A:

Well, the socks were still the same. They looked the same as they did on the 29th.

15 Q:

Did you see blood when you first looked at the socks?

16 A:

It's not apparent, no. It's very difficult to see anything on it. It just looked like the same material.

17 Q:

And by the time you looked at them, were you aware of the fact that Mr. Yamauchi had already discovered the existence of in blood on the socks?

18 A:

Yes, I was.

19 Q:

So you were looking specifically to find blood on this occasion?

20 A:

That's correct.

21 Q:

And were you ever able to actually see it with your eyes?

22 A:

Yes.

23 Q:

And how did you go about doing that?

24 A:

Well, the socks are very, very dark, like I said in my inventory, I'm not sure whether a navy blue or a black. But they were, in essence, black.

Blood, when it dries, can also be very dark. In order to do an examination of something like that, you do it in a laboratory condition that I did in this case.

You have high intensity lights that can be placed near the surface to be able to see it. And it seems -- it just takes looking at the material, like walking into a dark room where you can't see anything, and allowing your eyes to adjust to it with these socks. If you look at them and allow your eyes to adjust to the color of the sock, you -- eventually, you start making out the darker areas that had blood-stained areas.

After a little while, it becomes very easy to pick out the areas that are actually stained, once you become accustomed to the slight difference in color.

25 Q:

Other than making that kind of close examination, is the blood readily apparent on the socks?

26 MR. BLASIER:

Objection. Leading.

27 THE COURT:

Overruled.

28 GREGORY MATHESON:

No, it is not.

29 Q:

(BY MR. LAMBERT) Finally, Mr. Blasier asked you some questions about whether it would be possible for the blood from the reference samples to be mixed together.

Are you aware of anyone ever mixing together the reference samples in the case?

30 A:

No, I'm not.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Matheson
It just takes looking at the material, like walking into a dark room where you can't see anything, and allowing your eyes to adjust to it with these socks. If you look at them and allow your eyes to adjust to the color of the sock, you -- eventually, you start making out the darker areas that had blood-stained areas.
Explains why the blood on the socks was not immediately visible, countering implications from cross-examination that the stains were obvious and should have been noted earlier.
Matheson
No, it is not.
Direct answer confirming blood was not readily apparent on the socks without close laboratory examination — rehabilitation of the credibility of the delayed discovery.
Matheson
Each item inside is packaged individually or independently.
Counters any cross-examination suggestion that co-mingling of evidence items could have caused contamination.
Matheson
No, I'm not.
Denies any knowledge of reference samples being mixed together, directly rebutting a contamination theory raised by Blasier on cross.

Evidence (3)

Informal
Biological evidence items stored in freezer in the serology department, individually wrapped inside a large box
discussed
Informal
O.J. Simpson's dark socks, examined by Matheson in mid-September and by Colin Yamauchi on August 4
discussed
Informal
Reference blood samples — Lambert asked whether anyone had mixed them together
discussed

Notable Exchanges (2)

LambertMatheson
Lambert walked Matheson through the detailed process of detecting near-invisible dried blood on black socks under laboratory conditions, rehabilitating the credibility of the August 4 discovery.
strategic
LambertMatheson
Lambert closed by asking whether anyone had ever mixed the reference samples together — Matheson said no — directly rebutting a contamination theory Blasier had pursued on cross.
strategic

Objections

1 objections (0 sustained, 1 overruled)
Proceeding 8134 • 30 utterances • Plaintiff witness
Civil Trial
Department 103
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📂 NOV 4, 1996 📄 Cross-examination of Gregory M
NOV 4, 1996 KRT DvH TD