Direct examination of O.J. Simpson (part 2)

📄 Direct examination of O.J. Simpson (part 2) — Monday, November 25, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1996\NOV\25\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-O-J-SIMP.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 22 of 57

◀ Recess (1) Redirect examination of O.J. Simpson (part 2) ▶

Witness: O.J. Simpson
Examiner: Daniel Petrocelli
Called by: Defense • Date: Monday, November 25, 1996 • Utterances: 900

Petrocelli methodically cross-examined Simpson about the Chicago hotel room incident on June 13, 1994 — specifically how he broke a glass in the bathroom, how he cut his hand, and how blood ended up on the hotel bed sheets and hand towel. Simpson repeatedly claimed inability to remember key details, admitted he could not explain his finger injuries to the jury, and was forced to concede that those injuries could have occurred on the evening of June 12.

# 1 (Jurors resumed their respective seats.)

# 2 MR. PETROCELLI:

Thank you, Your Honor.

# 3 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Mr. Simpson, your testimony is that in the evening of June 12, 1994, the only blood you ever saw that day and evening was a little bit on your pinky and on the kitchen counter?

# 4 MR. BAKER:

Asked and answered, argumentative

# 5 MR. PETROCELLI:

That --

# 6 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 7 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Did you see any blood anywhere else at all in the house, on the driveway, or in the car?

# 8 A:

No, not that I recall.

# 9 Q:

Now, you're positive that the blood that you saw was on your pinky, not on any other finger?

# 10 A:

Yes.

# 11 Q:

And you're positive it was your left hand, right?

# 12 A:

Yeah, pretty sure that's where it was.

# 13 Q:

And you did not tell the police, sir, about any pinky cut, did you?

# 14 A:

No.

# 15 Q:

You didn't tell the police that you cut your pinky, right?

# 16 A:

No.

# 17 Q:

And you didn't tell the police that you saw blood on your pinky, right?

# 18 A:

I know I did, possibly more than once.

# 19 Q:

In the statement you didn't tell the police, the tape recorded statement, anything about a pinky, correct?

# 20 A:

I -- possibly not, but I don't know, I don't -- I haven't read it to that detail.

# 21 Q:

Well, you want to take a look at the page where you discuss the blood in the kitchen, at line 3, and tell me if in describing that you saw some blood on your -- in the kitchen, at that point, if you mentioned anything about a pinky?

# 22 A:

In this, no.

# 23 Q:

Okay.

# 24 A:

I mean I don't see it there.

# 25 Q:

The discussion you were having about a cut finger, with the police, was in reference to a large -- large cut on the back of your middle finger, right?

# 26 A:

I know we talked about that, yes.

# 27 Q:

And in all the discussions about your finger being cut, with the police, the reference was to the middle finger, correct?

# 28 A:

I remember we talked about that, yes.

# 29 Q:

Okay.

And there's nothing in the statement about a pinky, right?

# 30 A:

No, I don't believe so. But I know I told them that on more than one occasion.

# 31 Q:

Now, when you left to go to the airport, you got there and got on the plane and you sat down in first class, right?

# 32 A:

At some point, yes.

# 33 Q:

And nobody sat next to you, right?

# 34 A:

I don't believe so.

# 35 Q:

And it was the lights go out on a redeye flight and most folks go to sleep?

# 36 MR. BAKER:

Object.

# 37 O.J. SIMPSON:

I would assume so.

# 38 MR. BAKER:

Calls for speculation.

# 39 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 40 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) You're a frequent first class flyer on redeye flights, right?

# 41 A:

Yes.

# 42 Q:

You see that most of the time, people in the cabin are sleeping, right?

# 43 A:

A lot of people -- some people read, some people sleep. I tend to try to sleep and read. I do a little bit of both.

# 44 Q:

You didn't sleep that night, right?

# 45 A:

I think I dozed a little bit, yes.

# 46 Q:

For how long?

# 47 A:

I don't know.

# 48 Q:

Couple hours?

# 49 A:

I don't know. I couldn't even tell you how long the flight was because I kind of -- I was reading, I dozed, I was reading. The captain came back. I was reading, I dozed, you know, just a little bit of each.

# 50 Q:

So a four-hour flight, you think you slept two hours?

# 51 A:

Maybe, maybe an hour.

# 52 Q:

Hour to two?

# 53 A:

Yeah.

# 54 Q:

Okay.

# 55 A:

Yeah.

# 56 Q:

You didn't display your left hand to anyone on the airplane, did you?

# 57 A:

No.

# 58 Q:

When you landed in Chicago, it was about 6 a.m. Chicago time?

# 59 A:

I would have guessed so.

# 60 Q:

You were met there by a Hertz representative to take you over to the airport, right?

# 61 A:

No.

# 62 Q:

Take you to the hotel? Excuse me.

# 63 A:

Yes.

# 64 Q:

This is Chicago -- O'Hare Airport?

# 65 A:

That's right.

# 66 Q:

You're going to a hotel that was then called the Chicago O'Hare Plaza?

# 67 A:

That's correct.

# 68 Q:

Now called the Windham hotel?

# 69 A:

I don't know.

# 70 Q:

In any event, you had never seen this person who showed up to pick you up, right?

# 71 A:

I don't believe so.

# 72 Q:

Okay.

And when he met you at the gate --

# 73 A:

Yes.

# 74 Q:

-- you came off the plane with your black grip and your suit -- your O.J.S suit bag?

# 75 A:

Yes.

# 76 Q:

And you walked down to the baggage claim area to pick up the Louis Vuitton and golf bag?

# 77 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 78 Q:

Before the baggage got there, you sat down on the bench with this fellow who's name we've since learned is Jim Merrill?

# 79 A:

Yes.

# 80 Q:

M-e-r-r-i-l-l.

Hertz employee, right?

# 81 A:

Yes.

# 82 Q:

This was a Hertz function you were going to?

# 83 A:

That's correct.

# 84 Q:

And when the baggage arrived on the carousel, you left your two items that you carried off the plane with Merrill, and you went over to the carousel area to pick up the other two items, correct?

# 85 A:

I don't recall. I know I carried some; he carried some.

# 86 Q:

I'm just focusing on the time when you're waiting for the luggage, right? You with me?

# 87 A:

Yeah, I was signing autographs, waiting for the luggage.

# 88 Q:

So what I'm getting to is this: Merrill is waiting on the bench with two of the pieces you came off the plane with, and you went on your own to the baggage carousel to pick up the golf bag and the Louis Vuitton bag, true or untrue?

# 89 A:

I don't recall that. I just know he carried two items and I carried two items.

# 90 Q:

Do you recall that or not?

# 91 A:

No.

# 92 Q:

If Merrill said that happened, you wouldn't quarrel with that, would you?

# 93 A:

No.

# 94 Q:

Okay.

And you were out of Merrill's view for a couple of minutes, right?

# 95 A:

No, no, this was -- was as close as almost you and I are.

# 96 Q:

Couple of minutes it took you to go get your stuff and come back?

# 97 A:

We were about -- the baggage rack was about where your counsel table is and the bench was about here where we're all in one open room.

# 98 Q:

You picked up the golf bag and the Louis Vuitton bag, and carrying those items walked to the waiting car?

# 99 A:

Yeah, it was right outside the door, maybe ten yards from us.

# 100 Q:

And you put those items -- the golf bag went in the trunk, right?

# 101 A:

Yeah. He had a truck. It went in the back of his truck.

# 102 Q:

And you then drove to the hotel, correct?

# 103 A:

That's correct.

# 104 Q:

Hotel is only about five minutes away, right?

# 105 A:

It didn't seem much more than ten minutes.

# 106 Q:

Pretty close to the airport?

# 107 A:

Yes.

# 108 Q:

Now, when you got to the airport -- excuse me.

When you got to the hotel, you made arrangements with Mr. Merrill to pick you up the next day -- later on that day, after you had some sleep, to go to the golf event, correct?

# 109 A:

No.

# 110 Q:

You had -- you had him -- you exchanged phone numbers with him, right?

# 111 A:

Yeah, he gave me his number. It was already arranged that he would pick me up the next morning to take me to the golf course.

# 112 Q:

You were expecting him to come back in a few hours to get you and take you to the golf event?

# 113 A:

That's correct.

# 114 Q:

And you got from Mr. Merrill some telephone numbers, right?

# 115 A:

Yes.

# 116 Q:

And you got from Mr. Merrill his work number, correct?

# 117 A:

That's correct.

# 118 Q:

And you also got from Mr. Merrill his home phone number, correct?

# 119 A:

Well, I think I got his mobile phone and his home phone. I don't believe I got his work number. It may have already been in my travel folder.

# 120 Q:

May have been in his car?

# 121 A:

I don't remember getting --

# 122 Q:

Basically you had all his phone numbers?

# 123 A:

I think I had them.

# 124 Q:

Excuse me?

# 125 A:

I think I had them on my travel thing, I believe, and I think he may have added his cell phone number.

# 126 Q:

And you asked for that?

# 127 A:

I don't know if I asked for it or not. I think he just gave it to me.

# 128 Q:

Then you checked into the hotel, correct?

# 129 A:

Yes.

# 130 Q:

And you left your golf bag with Merrill in the truck?

# 131 A:

That's right.

# 132 Q:

And you took the other items with you, correct?

# 133 A:

Yes.

# 134 Q:

And you were expecting to see Merrill in a few hours, correct?

# 135 A:

Five hours or so.

# 136 Q:

It was about -- about 6:30 a.m. Chicago time?

# 137 A:

That's correct.

# 138 Q:

And he was going to pick you up about 10 o'clock?

# 139 A:

I don't know -- I thought something was going on at -- I thought he was picking me up about 11, I forgot there was a lunch thing -- that he was going to pick me up at the golf course.

# 140 Q:

Now, you told the person at the front desk that you did not want any phone calls, correct?

# 141 A:

I don't know if I told her that or not. I may have, but I don't -- I don't -- I don't recall saying that to her, no.

# 142 Q:

You sure?

# 143 A:

I don't -- I don't ever recall ever telling people don't put calls through.

# 144 Q:

You didn't tell her that you didn't want to be disturbed cause you only had a couple hours to get some sleep?

# 145 A:

I may have.

# 146 Q:

Did you say that?

# 147 A:

I may have, yes.

# 148 Q:

You may have?

# 149 A:

Yes.

# 150 Q:

Okay. Then you went up to your room, and you didn't unpack all your clothes, right?

# 151 A:

When you say unpack, I took my suit bag and hung it up. I took my -- the two golf outfits that I had in my Louis Vuitton bag and hung it up, you know, took out my toiletries. I did what I always do.

# 152 Q:

You got in bed, right?

# 153 A:

Yes.

# 154 Q:

And laid down for a while, correct?

# 155 A:

Yeah, I may have read a little bit. I tend to read myself to sleep.

# 156 MR. PETROCELLI:

Can we have the photos of the hotel room, Steve.

# 157 (Mr. Foster displays exhibits.)

# 158 Q:

Now, that was a suite that they set up for you, right?

# 159 A:

I believe so.

# 160 Q:

Suite 915?

# 161 A:

Yes.

# 162 Q:

And the bedroom had a phone next to it, correct, the bedroom had a bedside table next to the bed, there's a phone on the -- on the bedside table, true?

# 163 A:

Yes.

# 164 Q:

And there is no telephone in the bathroom which is in the next room, right?

# 165 A:

I don't believe so, but I don't recall.

# 166 MR. PETROCELLI:

What exhibit number?

# 167 MR. FOSTER:

1319.

# 168 (Exhibit 1319 was displayed.)

# 169 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) You can look at the monitor, Mr. Simpson.

# 170 A:

Yeah.

# 171 Q:

That's the bed you slept in, right?

# 172 A:

Yes.

# 173 Q:

And this is the phone next to the bed, right?

# 174 A:

Yes.

# 175 Q:

And you slept for a little bit, right?

# 176 A:

Yes.

# 177 Q:

And you dropped some blood while you were sleeping in the middle of those sheets, didn't you, sir, from your bleeding finger, right?

# 178 A:

I would doubt that.

# 179 Q:

And there was blood found in the middle or center area of the sheets, right?

You're aware of that?

# 180 A:

I don't know where, but I heard that there was a drop of blood or something on the sheets, yes.

# 181 Q:

Now, just jumping ahead for a second.

After you received the call from Detective Phillips notifying you of Nicole's death, you hurried to get out of there, and at no time after that call did you ever get back into bed, correct, Mr. Simpson?

# 182 A:

Into, no.

# 183 Q:

You didn't lay down and take a nap or anything, right?

# 184 A:

Into the bed, no. I did lay back on the bed at one point, and was on the bed every time I was on the telephone.

# 185 Q:

Okay.

Now, Detective Phillips called around 8 o'clock Chicago time, correct?

# 186 A:

That's correct.

# 187 Q:

And told you that your ex-wife had been killed, right?

# 188 A:

Among other things, yes.

# 189 Q:

And said your children were at the police station, right?

# 190 A:

Yes.

# 191 Q:

And you said, what do you mean? What do you mean? Words to that effect, right?

True?

# 192 A:

Yeah.

# 193 Q:

You never once said to Detective Phillips, are you sure, are you sure, you never said that, did you?

# 194 A:

Am I sure of what?

# 195 Q:

Are you sure it was Nicole?

# 196 A:

No.

# 197 Q:

As opposed to somebody else?

# 198 A:

No.

# 199 Q:

You didn't say that, did you?

# 200 A:

No, I didn't.

# 201 Q:

And you didn't ask Detective Phillips questions about how it could have happened, whether it was a car accident or burglary or whatever?

# 202 A:

I think --

# 203 Q:

You didn't ask any of those questions?

# 204 A:

About a burglary and a car accident, no.

I think my first question was, what do you mean, what are you saying, what do you mean. And he immediately told me, we can't tell you anything, we're trying to investigate, we're trying to find out, O.J., there's nothing we know now, your kids are safe, and words to that effect.

# 205 Q:

And after he told you those things, Mr. Simpson, you did not continue to pepper him with questions about how it could have happened and was it a this, was it a that, you didn't go on, right?

# 206 A:

No. I called back though, and then whoever I talked to next told me the same thing.

# 207 Q:

Told you they didn't know anything?

# 208 A:

That there was nothing they can tell me. Same thing they told me all day long.

# 209 Q:

You then got on the phone to make this arrangement to get back to Los Angeles, right?

# 210 A:

Yes.

# 211 Q:

And you talked to Cathy Randa, your assistant, to help you get a flight back to L.A.?

# 212 A:

I think on numerous times I did.

# 213 Q:

Several times, right?

# 214 A:

Yes.

# 215 Q:

And you -- she got on the phone with you on a three-way conference call to a travel agent that worked for the Hertz Company, a woman by the name of Donna, was it Manzion?

# 216 A:

You know, I really don't recall any of that. I just know --

# 217 Q:

You don't recall?

# 218 A:

No.

# 219 Q:

Okay. And while you were on the telephone call with Cathy and this travel person, you put the phone down and you went into the bathroom that adjoins that bedroom, true?

# 220 A:

I don't know. I know at a couple of times the people who were trying to help me on the phone said it would take a while, that did I want them to call back or would I hold. And I would be running, trying to pack, and I was in the bathroom and back, and I was on and off the phone so many times because -- I think the flight that took I arranged, not Cathy. Cathy had arranged for me to take a 10 o'clock flight, and I found a 9:15 flight. I was back and forth to the phone so many times then, and on a few occasions I know the person said it would take a while, so they held while I was -- and I was running back and forth to the phone.

# 221 Q:

Let me stop you there.

That exhibit we just had on the TV monitor, of the bed, was Exhibit 1319. And now we're going to put up on the monitor, Exhibit 2156

# 222 (Exhibit 2156 displayed.)

# 223 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, this is the bathroom that adjoins that bedroom, right?

# 224 A:

Yes.

# 225 Q:

There's no phone in that bathroom, right?

# 226 A:

I don't see any.

# 227 Q:

And you went in that bathroom while you were on the phone, or between calls or whatever, getting your plane back, and you went and broke a glass, right?

# 228 A:

Yeah, a glass broke at one point when I was in there.

# 229 Q:

What do you mean a glass broke? You broke it, right?

# 230 A:

Yes.

# 231 Q:

Tell the jury exactly how you broke the glass.

# 232 A:

I couldn't tell you. I don't know.

# 233 Q:

Give us -- Give us your best recollection. How did you break it, sir?

# 234 A:

I think I was very emotional when I went in there at one point, and during that point a glass broke as I was going back and forth. It was a very emotional time for me.

KEY QUOTE

# 235 Q:

Pretend this is a glass.

# 236 (Indicating to a water bottle.)

# 237 A:

Yes.

# 238 Q:

I wish I had a glass. I was supposed to have one. Let's use this.

You know those hotel glasses are kind of thick, right?

# 239 A:

Yes.

# 240 Q:

Sturdy glasses. They're sort of short tumblers?

# 241 A:

Some are, some aren't.

# 242 Q:

That's the kind of glass they had there?

# 243 A:

I don't recall.

# 244 Q:

How did you break it? What did you do?

# 245 A:

I don't know. At one point going back and forth, a glass broke. I couldn't tell you if I was drinking water, or if I slammed it down or if I just knocked it over. I really couldn't tell you. It just -- as I was going back and forth to the plane, trying to get a flight out of Chicago, trying to get my stuff packed, a glass broke.

# 246 Q:

That's not a normal occurrence for you, glasses to break, right?

# 247 A:

I've broken glasses. I think everybody here has broken glasses before.

# 248 Q:

You know when you break a glass, right?

# 249 A:

I know when I broke a glass.

# 250 Q:

When did you break this glass?

# 251 A:

I don't know.

# 252 Q:

At what point in time did you break this glass, tell us exactly when it occurred?

# 253 A:

As I've told you on numerous occasions, Mr. Petrocelli, it was during the course of going back and forth trying to pack, trying to get my flight out of there, I was going back and forth, back and forth. In the midst of that, at one of the times I was in and out of that bathroom, the glass broke.

# 254 Q:

Well, the glasses -- you see the coffee, condiments and the coffee machine there, and flowers; you see all that there?

# 255 (Indicating to exhibit 2156)

# 256 A:

Yes.

# 257 Q:

Now, is this the way it looked when you were there that --

# 258 A:

I don't remember.

# 259 Q:

You don't question this, though, do you?

# 260 A:

No.

# 261 Q:

Okay.

Now, you didn't take the glass and throw it at these items here, right?

# 262 A:

No.

# 263 Q:

Okay.

And you didn't take the glass and throw it at the mirror, right?

# 264 A:

I don't recall.

# 265 Q:

And you didn't throw it at the shower, did you?

# 266 A:

No.

# 267 Q:

And you didn't throw it into the toilet, did you?

# 268 A:

No.

# 269 Q:

You didn't throw it on the floor, did you?

# 270 A:

No.

# 271 Q:

You didn't throw it at anything, right?

# 272 A:

I don't believe so, no.

# 273 Q:

Okay. And if you didn't throw the glass -- excuse me.

Did you step on it?

# 274 A:

No.

# 275 Q:

Did you put it down on the ground and step on it?

# 276 A:

No.

# 277 Q:

Did you kick it?

# 278 A:

No.

# 279 Q:

Did you do anything with the glass in sort of an act of rage or violence, taking the glass and slamming it down on the counter? Did you do that?

# 280 A:

Rage of violence, no.

# 281 Q:

Yeah.

Did you slam it down on the counter?

# 282 A:

I may have.

# 283 Q:

You may have?

# 284 A:

Yes.

# 285 Q:

Okay. That's the closest you can remember is that you may have taken the glass and gone like that; is that what you're saying.

# 286 A:

I may have.

# 287 Q:

Okay. Is that the best you can do for this jury?

# 288 A:

Yes.

# 289 MR. BAKER:

Argumentative.

# 290 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 291 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Did -- Now, when you think you've -- you may have done that, what area of the bathroom counter did that happen, sir?

# 292 MR. BAKER:

We now have elevated it to happening when he says it may have happened. There's no basis for that question.

# 293 THE COURT:

Overruled.

You may answer if you can.

# 294 A:

I just recall my toothbrush and glass right around the area that may -- what appears to be an ashtray, I just know there was a piece of glass on the floor, I believe, and glass was in that area, and, you know, it wasn't the focal point of where I was at that time.

It was just a glass there. I moved it. I just know that I somehow moved it into the sink so that I could get my stuff. And my focus was on trying to get a flight out of Chicago and get home.

# 295 Q:

When that glass broke, you got -- you went back to the telephone and told the person on the line that you just broke a glass, didn't you?

# 296 A:

I don't know. I don't know what I said to these people. I just knew --

# 297 Q:

You remember saying that?

# 298 A:

No, I don't.

# 299 Q:

Okay.

And when the glass broke, you said one piece landed on the floor, right?

# 300 A:

I don't know. It may have been two pieces.

# 301 Q:

Two pieces?

# 302 A:

It seemed to me I picked something up off the floor, 'cause my first concern was that there was stuff on the floor, and I was -- I just picked it up.

As I said, I was in such a rush that it wasn't anything that I focused on.

# 303 Q:

Now, what about on the counter, where were the glass chips on -- or glass shards on the counter?

# 304 A:

I just know it was on this side.

# 305 Q:

What side? Right side?

# 306 A:

Facing --

# 307 Q:

The picture?

# 308 A:

Facing on the side where the toilet paper seemed to be.

# 309 Q:

Right here?

# 310 A:

I don't know. It was in that area. It was on this side of the sink. I don't know specifically where each piece of glass was. I don't know.

# 311 Q:

Okay.

And when that happened, sir, right away did you notice blood?

# 312 A:

I don't believe so.

# 313 Q:

Okay.

And after that happened, sir, what did you do?

# 314 A:

I don't know. I was going back and forth to the phone, and at one point I noticed blood and I took some of that and put it around, that paper that was right there, and I was going back and forth.

# 315 Q:

What paper?

# 316 A:

I believe it was the toilet paper.

# 317 Q:

Toilet paper?

# 318 A:

Yeah.

# 319 Q:

So the sequence of events is you think you may have slammed the glass down, you may have broken it, you went to the phone, you picked up a piece of glass off the floor, or two.

What did you do with the glass up on the counter?

# 320 A:

I think basically my recall, and I'm strictly taking a shot here. I -- at some point when I was trying to get it in the sink, I think I cut my hand, but I couldn't tell you when. I was back and forth to the phone so many times, and I was also packing and at some point in there I cut my hand.

# 321 Q:

Now, you didn't cut your hand when you slammed the glass down, right?

# 322 A:

I don't believe I cut it when the glass first broke.

# 323 Q:

You keep saying glass first broke?

# 324 A:

Yes.

# 325 Q:

You don't know how you did it?

# 326 A:

No.

# 327 Q:

And with the glass up here, you testified in your deposition that you began to sweep that glass all the way across into the sink, true?

# 328 A:

I don't know about all the way across. I would imagine that even where you are is about 12 inches or so from the sink.

# 329 Q:

From the toilet paper area to the sink you think is about 12 inches?

# 330 A:

Yeah, I would say there.

# 331 (Indicating to photo.)

# 332 Q:

Okay.

# 333 A:

As I said, it's on the toilet paper side of the sink. I wouldn't say it's as far as the toilet paper. I don't -- it was just glass in that area. I used possibly that towel there, I guess, to --

# 334 Q:

Now, when you did the sweeping of the glass into the sink, did you put anything over your hand to prevent it from getting cut?

# 335 A:

I think I used a towel to do that.

# 336 Q:

And you wrapped the towel around your hand?

# 337 A:

No, I don't --

# 338 Q:

What did you do with the towel?

# 339 A:

I don't know. I just took something. I may have been trying to flap it over. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. It was not a focal point of what I was doing. I could not tell you with any real certainty exactly how I did it.

All I know is that at some point I was packing my stuff, I made sure the glass was out of my way as I was putting my things back in my overnight kit, I was going back and forth to the airplane -- I mean to the telephone, and somewhere in there my hand was cut.

# 340 Q:

Did you put the towel around your hand?

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

# 341 A:

I don't know.

# 342 Q:

Did you take the towel and put it in front of your hand?

# 343 A:

I don't recall.

# 344 Q:

Now, you're right-handed, you said, right?

# 345 A:

Yeah.

# 346 Q:

So did you take your right hand and sweep the glass into the sink?

# 347 A:

I don't recall.

# 348 Q:

And you cut your hand when you did the sweeping of the glass into the sink?

# 349 A:

I assumed so; at some point I was cleaning up the glass, a piece cut my -- my hand.

# 350 Q:

Now, the glass was swept from the countertop into the sink, right?

# 351 A:

I think I got most of it into the sink, yes.

# 352 Q:

And you picked one or two pieces up and put those in the sink, right?

# 353 A:

Yes.

# 354 Q:

And you didn't cut your right hand doing that, did you?

# 355 A:

No, I didn't.

# 356 Q:

You have marks on your left hand, right?

# 357 A:

Yes, I have marks on both hands.

# 358 Q:

Well, that night you had a large injury on your left hand, right?

# 359 A:

That's correct.

# 360 Q:

And it's on the back of your left finger, right?

# 361 A:

That's correct.

# 362 Q:

And, in fact, you also had -- for the jury, we're talking about the middle finger where the scar is, right?

# 363 A:

Yes.

# 364 Q:

Now, your testimony right now is that you sustained that injury, that still bears the scar, while sweeping the glass into the sink, correct?

# 365 A:

I sustained that injury at sometime, I assumed, sweeping, picking up, I was cleaning the glass, trying to get it into the sink, that's when I got that injury.

# 366 Q:

Okay.

And so then you're now saying that you used your left hand?

# 367 A:

I'm sure I used both hands, you know. I'm -- you know, I can use both of my hands.

# 368 Q:

So, you mean you used your left hand to backhand the chips --

# 369 A:

I don't know.

# 370 Q:

-- chips of glass into the sink?

# 371 A:

I don't know.

# 372 Q:

How did you get the cut on your finger?

# 373 A:

Well, I got the cut during the period of time that I was trying to get the glass into the sink. I cut my finger.

# 374 Q:

Well, tell us how glass came into contact to that part of your finger, sir, while you were sweeping the glass or picking up the pieces?

# 375 A:

As I've told you on numerous occasions now, I couldn't tell you distinctly at what precise instant it happened, but it was during the process of going back and forth to the telephone, trying to pack my clothes, moving the glass out of the way so I can put my toiletries away, that I cut my hand.

I can't tell you any more than that.

KEY QUOTE

# 376 Q:

You're unable to give us anything more definitive than that, sir?

# 377 A:

That's correct.

# 378 Q:

You cannot tell the jury how the cut -- how the glass actually cut your finger?

KEY QUOTE

# 379 A:

No.

# 380 Q:

True?

# 381 A:

That is -- No.

# 382 Q:

That is correct?

# 383 A:

That is correct.

# 384 Q:

And you also had another injury when you came back to Los Angeles, right, sir?

# 385 A:

That's incorrect.

# 386 Q:

In other words, you had not only the middle finger injured that still bears the scar, but you had on your -- on your fourth finger, next to it, you had an injury right there, right?

# 387 A:

That's incorrect.

# 388 Q:

You've seen the picture of that, right?

# 389 A:

Yes.

# 390 Q:

And you deny coming back to LA with that on your hand?

# 391 A:

Yes.

# 392 Q:

And you deny having that cut on your hand on the fourth finger, the inside part of the finger, when you spoke to the police?

# 393 A:

Well, I know it wasn't there when the police had my hand on the paper with Nurse Peratis and they were inspecting my hand. I know it wasn't there then.

# 394 Q:

And was it there by the time you left the police station?

# 395 A:

I don't -- It wasn't there then.

I know when I was with Vannatter and Lange and Nurse Peratis, all three of them took my hand, they put it down on the thing, Nurse Peratis was cleaning the cut on my middle finger, they both looked at my hand and there was no other cut there.

# 396 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay.

This is the fourth finger, right.

Exhibit 714/715.

# 397 (Exhibit 714/715 displayed.)

# 398 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) You definitely had this on your fourth finger as of June 15 when you were in the office of Dr. Robert Huizenga, true?

# 399 A:

I assume so, yes.

# 400 Q:

You don't deny that, do you?

# 401 A:

I assume so. I don't recall it, but if that's when this picture was taken evidently, I did.

# 402 Q:

Well, if he said you had that cut on your finger on the 15 of June, you wouldn't quarrel with that?

# 403 A:

Not at all.

# 404 Q:

Okay.

Now, did you have this injury depicted on this exhibit of your -- Exhibit 714?

# 405 A:

Most definitely not. I didn't see it. I know -- I know both Peratis, Vannatter and Lange both inspected my hand, they held it up, they put it on the thing, they looked at the injury, they talked to me about the injury, and I'm sure that they would have noted it if there was another injury there, and it was not there.

# 406 Q:

Well, I'm not interested in argument.

Just answer the question, okay.

# 407 MR. BAKER:

I'm going to object to that comment, especially in lieu of his arguing all morning.

# 408 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 409 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Mr. Simpson, if you had an injury like that on your hand as depicted on this fourth finger there, you would know you had it, true?

# 410 A:

Not necessarily.

# 411 Q:

Oh, would you have an injury like that and not even be aware of it; is that what you're saying?

# 412 A:

Often I do.

# 413 Q:

Marks like that?

# 414 A:

That's not really -- if you could look at the wrinkles of your hand and look at the wrinkles there, that's not a big mark. I just know it wasn't there -- was not there --

# 415 Q:

Okay.

# 416 A:

-- was not there on the 13th when I was in Nurse Peratis' office with Vannatter and Lange. That was not there.

# 417 Q:

And -- well, let me -- let me say this to you. You've been with Skip Taft for how many years, 30 years?

# 418 A:

Yes.

# 419 Q:

Is he an honest man?

# 420 A:

I think so.

# 421 Q:

Very loyal to you?

# 422 A:

I believe so.

# 423 Q:

And he testified in his deposition that you had that on your hand at June 13.

# 424 MR. BAKER:

I object. That's an improper question. I object to that.

# 425 Q:

(MR. PETROCELLI) If he testified --

# 426 THE COURT:

Just a minute. Sustained.

# 427 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) If he testified that you had that injury on your hand on June 13 --

# 428 MR. BAKER:

I object again. He's asking the same question.

# 429 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Would that be correct or incorrect?

# 430 MR. BAKER:

He's asking the same question. It's been sustained.

# 431 MR. PETROCELLI:

It's not the same question.

# 432 MR. BAKER:

Exactly the same --

# 433 THE COURT:

Excuse me.

Taft has not testified, yes?

# 434 MR. PETROCELLI:

Taft?

# 435 THE COURT:

Taft.

# 436 MR. PETROCELLI:

Skip Taft, T-a-f-t, he will be testifying shortly, Your Honor.

And my question to the witness is if Mr. Taft did testify in his deposition --

# 437 THE COURT:

All right then. Overruled.

# 438 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) If Mr. Taft testified in his deposition that you had that injury on your fourth finger when you were at the police station, would he be correct or incorrect?

# 439 A:

He'd be incorrect.

# 440 Q:

And was he there with you?

# 441 A:

He was there with me just about every day.

# 442 Q:

So was Howard Weitzman, your lawyer?

# 443 A:

That's correct.

# 444 Q:

How did you get that cut, Mr. Simpson?

# 445 A:

You know, I really don't know.

# 446 Q:

So between June 13 and when Huizenga saw it on June 15, you have no clue how you got that cut; is that what you are saying?

# 447 MR. BAKER:

Argumentative.

# 448 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 449 A:

That's correct. I don't think that was a cut that -- that was not a cut, I know that.

# 450 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) It was a fingernail mark, wasn't it, sir?

# 451 A:

I doubt that very seriously.

# 452 Q:

It was someone's fingernails gripping into your skin, true?

# 453 A:

Unless it was Justin.

KEY QUOTE

# 454 MR. BAKER:

Object.

# 455 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 456 A:

I can't imagine who else it was.

# 457 Q:

You're saying it was Justin's, your son's?

# 458 A:

I think Justin is the only person that between the 13th and the 15th that I was in any real heavy physical thing with, but I don't recall that happening when he and I were wrestling that evening.

# 459 Q:

You're talking about the night of June 14, sir?

# 460 A:

Yes.

# 461 Q:

And how old was Justin that night?

# 462 A:

Probably 17 (sic).

I'm not saying this was Justin.

# 463 Q:

17?

# 464 A:

I'm saying he was the only person that I was in any -- that I would call physical thing with that a fingernail could be --

# 465 Q:

How old was Justin?

# 466 A:

# 467 Q:

And how old was he -- how big was he?

# 468 A:

Justin's a healthy kid.

# 469 Q:

When he was -- the evening of June 14, 1994, you're talking about a little boy, right?

# 470 A:

7 year old, 80-pound boy.

# 471 Q:

You're not saying to the jury that Justin gouged you with his fingernails and cause that injury?

# 472 A:

Not at all.

# 473 Q:

You're not saying that?

# 474 A:

Not at all. But's he the only person I was in any kind of physical wrestle with between the 13th and the 15th.

# 475 Q:

Exhibit from 714 slash 715. It's a booklet of photographs testified to by Dr. Huizenga.

This is your middle finger, Mr. Simpson, you see that?

# 476 A:

Yes.

# 477 Q:

Now, what's the cut -- what's the injury that you sustained in Chicago that you don't know how you did it but somehow had to do with the glass?

# 478 A:

This -- this thing right here.

# 479 Q:

This curved mark here?

# 480 A:

Yes.

# 481 (Indicating to Exhibit 714/715.)

# 482 Q:

And there's another injury right here.

Do you see that?

# 483 A:

Yes.

# 484 Q:

Another sort of curved mark.

Do you see that?

# 485 A:

Yes.

# 486 Q:

Now, how did you -- how did you get that injury?

# 487 A:

I don't know.

# 488 Q:

You don't know?

# 489 A:

No.

# 490 Q:

Can't give us a single explanation, true?

# 491 A:

True.

# 492 Q:

And you had had -- you had that injury on your hand as of June 15, true?

# 493 A:

Possibly.

# 494 Q:

When Dr. Huizenga so testified you wouldn't dispute that, would you?

# 495 A:

No, I wouldn't.

# 496 Q:

Did you have that injury on your hand when you came back from Chicago?

# 497 A:

No. The only injury I had on my hand -- like I said, they inspected it very closely.

# 498 Q:

Excuse me. I'm not asking you who inspected what. Okay.

Did you have this injury on the top of your middle finger when you came back from Chicago?

# 499 A:

I certainly did not see it.

Neither did Vannatter or Lange for that matter.

# 500 MR. PETROCELLI:

Move to strike.

# 501 THE COURT:

Stricken.

# 502 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Mr. Simpson, you keep bringing this up.

You're relying on statements that you read about in reports, that Mr. Vannatter and Mr. Lange didn't notice all the other cuts on your fingers, aren't you?

# 503 MR. BAKER:

I object to that. That's argumentative.

# 504 MR. PETROCELLI:

Brought it up five times.

All right.

# 505 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 506 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) You're relying on statements, correct?

# 507 A:

No. I don't think I ever saw -- other than my interview, I don't think I've ever read a statement by Vannatter or Lange or Peratis for that matter.

# 508 Q:

You are familiar with statements made by Detective Vannatter and Lange that they did not, when they interviewed on the 13th, notice other cuts, true?

You're familiar with that, right?

# 509 A:

No, that's incorrect.

# 510 Q:

And that's why you keep talking about Vannatter and Lange because you're trying to prove that because they didn't notice, you didn't have those cuts.

# 511 MR. BAKER:

Objection.

# 512 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) That's what you're trying to prove to this jury, right?

# 513 MR. BAKER:

I object. He's not trying to prove anything's. He answering questions.

# 514 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 515 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay.

Let's go to the next one, Steve, next photos.

# 516 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) And by the way, we'll show you this one, Mr. Simpson, June 13, police station, the one you keep talking about, right?

# 517 A:

Yes?

THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me. That number, please?

# 518 MR. FOSTER:

172.

# 519 (Exhibit 172 displayed.)

# 520 MR. PETROCELLI:

Do a fuller view of the whole hand.

# 521 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Okay.

Now, that's not a picture of your fourth finger, is it, sir?

# 522 A:

No. But it is a picture of my middle finger where I saw two marks.

# 523 Q:

Those two, they're both there?

# 524 A:

I don't know. I just see one.

# 525 Q:

You don't see the other cut there? Right here?

# 526 A:

No.

# 527 Q:

You don't see a cut right here or a redness right there on the picture taken on June 13 under the -- in the presence of Vannatter and Lange and Nurse Peratis?

# 528 A:

Yeah. I see redness all in there.

# 529 Q:

You don't see that cut there, that mark there?

# 530 MR. BAKER:

I object.

# 531 A:

No.

# 532 Q:

And you only see the one down here, right?

# 533 A:

Got to pull it back.

# 534 MR. PETROCELLI:

Pull it back.

# 535 (Indicating to Exhibit 172.)

# 536 O.J. SIMPSON:

Yeah, I think --

# 537 MR. PETROCELLI:

Pull it back more.

# 538 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) You don't see the fourth finger in there either, do you?

# 539 A:

No.

# 540 Q:

Then on the side --

# 541 A:

Not on that picture, no.

# 542 MR. PETROCELLI:

Let's put up another one, same time taken, June 13, police station.

# 543 MR. FOSTER:

171.

# 544 MR. PETROCELLI:

What's the last one?

# 545 MR. FOSTER:

172.

# 546 (Exhibit 171 displayed.)

# 547 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) You see this picture?

# 548 A:

Yeah.

# 549 Q:

You see that cut up there, Mr. Simpson?

# 550 A:

Show me.

# 551 Q:

You don't see that injury up there on the top part of your finger?

# 552 A:

I see something there that doesn't comport with the earlier picture that I saw with the side angle thing.

# 553 Q:

Where did you get that, Mr. Simpson?

# 554 A:

I don't think that's a cut. I think that's --

# 555 Q:

Where did you get that, fingernail gouging.

# 556 MR. BAKER:

I object.

# 557 A:

I don't think that's what that is.

# 558 MR. BAKER:

I object. Move to strike his characterization.

# 559 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 560 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Where did you get that injury?

# 561 A:

I don't know. I don't think that's an injury. If it did, it would have been with the glass, but --

# 562 Q:

You --

# 563 A:

I didn't see an injury then, and I know that they were taking pictures of anything that they thought, on my hand, was an injury.

# 564 Q:

So you -- are you now saying that it's possible you could have had another injury up above the knuckle cut?

# 565 A:

No, I'm not saying that.

# 566 MR. PETROCELLI:

Give me a distant shot on that of that picture. All the way back.

# 567 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) And you don't see the fourth finger photographed there, do you?

# 568 A:

No.

# 569 Q:

You're not aware of any photos of the fourth finger taken by the police department taken that day?

# 570 A:

I'm sure if they saw something they would have taken a picture.

# 571 Q:

Are you aware of any such photo?

# 572 A:

I'm not aware of it.

# 573 Q:

Never seen it, have you?

# 574 A:

No.

# 575 Q:

Okay.

# 576 MR. PETROCELLI:

Put that up there, left hand photo.

# 577 Q:

(MR. PETROCELLI) See these marks here, sir?

# 578 A:

Yeah.

# 579 THE REPORTER:

What is the exhibit number, please?

# 580 MR. GELBLUM:

714.

# 581 MR. PETROCELLI:

714, Gina. I'm sorry.

# 582 (Exhibit 714 displayed.)

# 583 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Where did you sustain these injuries, sir?

# 584 A:

Who knows.

# 585 Q:

You don't know?

# 586 A:

No.

# 587 Q:

Did you have them when you came back from Chicago?

# 588 A:

If I did, they're so small I don't think I would have noticed.

# 589 Q:

So you could have had those injuries?

# 590 A:

They could have been there.

# 591 Q:

And you could have had them -- sustained them on the evening of June 12, right?

# 592 A:

I wouldn't have any idea why they would have been there, so -- if you look at the wrinkles on your hand, and you look at those, they're so small, I wouldn't have noticed it, like if it would have happened like a week before.

# 593 Q:

You don't dispute that those injuries would -- could have occurred on the evening of June 12, do you?

# 594 A:

No.

# 595 Q:

If you got them after you came back from Chicago, you cannot tell the jury how you got them, true?

# 596 A:

That's correct.

# 597 Q:

Let's place there on --

# 598 MR. BAKER:

After this one returns --

# 599 Q:

This the same exhibit, Exhibit 714, left hand.

How did you get these injuries, sir?

# 600 A:

Again, if they were there I wouldn't even saw them, so I wouldn't have known where I got them.

# 601 Q:

You don't dispute that you could have gotten them on the evening of June 12?

# 602 A:

I could have gotten them at any time.

# 603 Q:

Including between 10 and 11 on the evening of June 12?

# 604 A:

I don't dispute I could have gotten this at any time.

KEY QUOTE

# 605 Q:

Including that time?

# 606 A:

Including that time.

# 607 MR. PETROCELLI:

Thank you.

# 608 THE COURT:

1:30, ladies and gentlemen.

# 609 (At 12:00 P.M. a recess was taken until 1:30 P.M. of the same day.)

# 610 (REGINA D. CHAVEZ, OFFICIAL REPORTER)

# 611 (The jurors resumed their respective seats.)

# 612 THE COURT:

You may proceed.

# 613 MR. PETROCELLI:

Thank you, Your Honor.

ORENTHAL JAMES SIMPSON, the witness on the stand at the time of the luncheon recess, having been previously duly sworn, was examined further as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) BY MR. PETROCELLI:

# 614 Q:

When you were in the Chicago hotel room packing up, Mr. Simpson, you checked around and looked for any blood?

# 615 A:

No.

# 616 Q:

And it is true, sir, that there was not any blood anywhere in that hotel room except for a small stain on a hand towel, true?

# 617 A:

I don't know.

# 618 Q:

You did not see any blood anywhere else except on a hand towel, true?

# 619 A:

I don't even know if I saw it on that.

# 620 Q:

Okay.

And you didn't see any blood on the telephone, for example, did you?

# 621 A:

No.

# 622 Q:

And after you cut your finger, or you saw blood on your finger, you did use the telephone, true?

# 623 A:

Yes.

# 624 Q:

And you didn't, at the end of the visit to the room, before you departed, go around cleaning up blood, right?

# 625 A:

No.

# 626 Q:

Okay.

# 627 MR. PETROCELLI:

Can you put on the towel.

What exhibit number, Steve?

# 628 MR. FOSTER:

1313.

# 629 MR. PETROCELLI:

1313.

# 630 (The instrument herein referred to as Photograph of a blood-stained hand towel was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 1313.)

# 631 (Exhibit 1313 displayed on TV screen.)

# 632 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) That's the hand towel that you believe that you used at some point?

# 633 A:

I don't know. I would assume, so.

# 634 Q:

Well, don't assume anything.

# 635 A:

Okay.

# 636 Q:

Is that the only time you saw blood, was on that hand towel?

# 637 A:

I don't recall if I even saw blood on that hand towel.

# 638 Q:

That's a hand towel that you used to sweep the glass into the sink?

# 639 A:

I don't know.

# 640 MR. PETROCELLI:

Let me ask for the picture of the glass in the sink. What exhibit number is it, Steve?

# 641 MR. FOSTER:

1316.

# 642 THE COURT:

1316 on the TV monitor.

# 643 (The instrument herein referred to as Photograph of a broken glass in a sink was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 1316.)

# 644 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) That's how you left the sink, Mr. Simpson, with the glass in it?

# 645 A:

Well, I don't know that, if that's how -- certainly there was glass in the sink when I left.

# 646 Q:

And you didn't see any blood on any piece of glass, true?

# 647 A:

I don't think I looked for any blood on the glass.

# 648 Q:

Whether or not you looked, you didn't see any, true?

# 649 A:

Well, I can't assume, so I don't know.

# 650 Q:

Now, when you said earlier that after this incident occurred where the glass broke and you saw blood, that you may have leaned on the bed at some point in time, right?

# 651 A:

I know that after I cut my hand at that point because I was going back and forth to the bed on numerous occasions, and whenever I was on the bed, I was -- you know, I was on the bed, whenever I was on the phone, I was the on bed.

# 652 Q:

So I take it, that by lying on this bed against these pillows, to talk on the phone, that your left hand would be the -- to left side of the bed, and your right hand to would be more to the center of the bed, true?

# 653 MR. BAKER:

There's no foundation for the position he was in at the time he was talking on the phone.

# 654 MR. PETROCELLI:

Excuse me. No speaking objections.

# 655 MR. BAKER:

I don't take advice from you, Mr. Petrocelli. THE COURT: Overruled.

You may answer, if you can.

# 656 A:

Well, I think from what I can see of the side table, I probably had the phone on the bed, and at some point -- and I don't know exactly where I was sitting -- I was sitting on the bed or what, and the telephone was sitting on the bed. That isn't what was on my mind.

# 657 Q:

Possibly you were sitting with your back up against the headboard and against the pillows; is that true?

# 658 A:

I doubt that.

# 659 Q:

You doubt that?

# 660 A:

Yeah.

# 661 Q:

You wouldn't be sitting the other way, facing the headboard, would you, bringing the phone all the way down to this side of the bed?

# 662 A:

I would think that I was probably sitting facing this way (indicating) more than the -- any other way.

And at a few times, they were calling me right back, after I was ready to go.

# 663 Q:

You mean sitting on the edge of the bed here (indicating) facing --

# 664 A:

Just --

# 665 Q:

-- facing the wall?

# 666 A:

Maybe that wall.

# 667 Q:

This wall (indicating)?

Which wall? Why don't you point to it.

# 668 A:

I guess there was a wall out here somewhere. I may have been sitting that way. I may have got my back up into the headboard.

I was on the phone many, many times. And how I was sitting on the bed is not something that I was really making any -- paying any attention to.

# 669 Q:

And when blood was dropped in the center of the bed, it was from your left hand, true?

# 670 A:

It could well have been.

# 671 Q:

You didn't bleed from your right hand?

# 672 A:

No.

# 673 Q:

Now, when you testified earlier that you put your your phone in the grip, right, when you left Rockingham?

# 674 A:

Yes.

# 675 Q:

And your cell phone case, too, in the grip?

# 676 A:

Yes.

# 677 Q:

Now, when you got to the hotel room, did you remove the either the cell phone or the cell phone case from your grip?

# 678 A:

I doubt it.

# 679 Q:

Okay.

Did you plug it in or anything?

# 680 A:

I doubt it.

# 681 Q:

And when you got ready to leave that hotel room, you said that you put on -- well, what did you wear when you left?

# 682 A:

My memory is that I put on whatever I was wearing originally. I just threw on whatever I wore there.

# 683 Q:

Okay.

Well, you wore it to the hotel room, Mr. Simpson, this sort of stone-washed jean outfit, with a white shirt?

# 684 A:

Yes.

# 685 Q:

And you testified at your deposition that when you got ready to leave this hotel room, you were thinking about putting on that same outfit, but you didn't, and instead you put on a different outfit. Is that true, sir?

# 686 A:

No. I think I put it on, and at some point, I knew I had gotten, from my hands, some blood on it.

At some point, I threw up, but that was on the airplane. And I don't recall changing on the airplane the pants, but I'm pretty sure I did that in the room.

# 687 Q:

You did what?

# 688 A:

Changed into the black pants.

# 689 Q:

That you ultimately were seen wearing?

# 690 A:

Yes.

# 691 Q:

So you didn't leave that hotel room with those blue pants on, right?

# 692 A:

I don't think so.

# 693 Q:

And those blue pants had blood on them, right?

# 694 A:

Whatever. Whatever.

I have a memory of getting on the airplane. I believe the girl brought me a band-aid, because coming in and out of the bathroom, I would -- there was a big, square water thing on my pants from throwing up. And my memory is that I changed before I left the hotel, but I could have done it on the plane, but my memory is that it was in the hotel before I left.

# 695 Q:

And you had blood on those pants, actually, from the night before, didn't you?

# 696 A:

No.

# 697 Q:

You had spilled (sic) some blood from your finger when you were going from Los Angeles to Chicago, right?

# 698 A:

No.

# 699 Q:

And put those pants on and left the hotel room, sir, in those blue-jean pants, didn't you?

# 700 A:

I kind of -- that's what I felt that I did. But I also remember -- I know I changed because I had thrown up on them, also.

So I'm pretty sure I did it at the hotel, but I could have done it in the airplane.

# 701 Q:

And when you went downstairs, you were --

Well, before we get downstairs, you made three phone calls from your hotel room in Chicago to this man Jim Merrill, right?

# 702 A:

I would think at least three.

# 703 Q:

And he left you a a 708 cell phone number, right?

# 704 A:

I know I had a cell phone number because when I originally called him, he said he's on his way --

# 705 Q:

And he --

# 706 A:

-- and I called him at various times, wondering exactly where he was, until I finally went down and tried to find a cab.

# 707 Q:

Let's take it one by one.

When you first called him, you asked him to come back to pick you up and take you to the airport, right?

# 708 A:

I told him I had to go.

# 709 Q:

And you called him at his cell phone number, right?

# 710 A:

I don't -- I'm pretty sure I called him at his house.

# 711 Q:

Right.

And he lived 45 minutes away in the suburbs, didn't he, sir?

# 712 A:

No. He told me he lived pretty close is what he told me.

# 713 Q:

He lived 30 to 45 minutes away; did he not tell you that?

# 714 A:

No. He told me he lived relatively close.

And I said, are you coming?

And he said, yeah, I should be there -- I thought he said in a half-hour.

# 715 Q:

And now, you could have simply taken a cab from downstairs and not bothered the gentleman, correct?

# 716 A:

When I got --

# 717 Q:

Is that true?

# 718 A:

When I got --

# 719 Q:

You could have gotten a cab?

# 720 A:

No, I couldn't have.

# 721 Q:

You could not have gone downstairs and asked the front desk to send you a cab if there wasn't one already; isn't that your testimony?

# 722 A:

I did that.

# 723 Q:

Okay.

And there was no need, then, to call Mr. Merrill, was there?

# 724 A:

I had already called Mr. Merrill before I got downstairs.

# 725 Q:

You could have called downstairs and asked them to send a cab, too?

# 726 A:

I did that. I got -- when I got downstairs, I asked for a cab, and 15 minutes later, there was still no cab.

# 727 Q:

From your hotel room, you could have called immediately, say, you know, get a cab waiting for me; the moment I get down, I want to hop in the cab and go to the airport?

# 728 A:

I suppose I could have done that.

# 729 Q:

You didn't do that?

# 730 A:

He said he'd be there in a half-hour.

# 731 Q:

Now, you called Merrill once; you called Merrill twice; you called Merrill three times from your hotel room, right?

# 732 A:

Yes.

# 733 Q:

The second time, Mr. Merrill told you on the telephone, he goes: "Look, I'm pretty far away and you probably should get some alternative transportation," true?

# 734 A:

No, that's not true.

# 735 Q:

So if he testified under oath to that in his deposition, he would be lying; is that true?

# 736 A:

That's correct.

# 737 Q:

He --

# 738 A:

He told me he was on his way and he'd get there as soon as he can.

# 739 Q:

And the truth of the matter is, Mr. Simpson, that the reason you were so anxious to get Mr. Merrill back to your hotel room is not because you needed a ride, but because he had your golf clubs, right?

# 740 A:

No, that's not correct.

# 741 Q:

And in that golf club bag -- you put that other bag over near the Bentley, right?

# 742 A:

I suppose it was still in there, yes.

# 743 Q:

And that's why you really wanted Mr. Merrill back, right?

# 744 A:

No. I could have waited and took the 10 o'clock plane that Cathy add arranged, but I didn't want to, so I took a 9:15 flight that I had arranged.

# 745 Q:

Okay.

Well, let me read now from your deposition.

# 746 MR. PETROCELLI:

Page 1976, Mr. Baker.

# 747 MR. BAKER:

Line?

# 748 MR. PETROCELLI:

# 749 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) This concerns what you wore --

# 750 A:

Yes.

# 751 Q:

-- when you left the hotel. What clothing did you put on when you left Chicago to go back to Los Angeles? I started off with some jeans, and I ended up -- before I left with some black pants and a white shirt and whatever. Before you -- Before you left the hotel. Yeah. I changed before I left the hotel. Q. So when you left the hotel, you had black pants on and a white shirt and you stayed in that outfit all the way till you got to the rest of the evening, right. Yes.

Okay?

# 752 A:

Um-hum. Well --

# 753 Q:

That was your testimony under oath?

# 754 A:

That still basically is what I believe happened.

# 755 Q:

Okay. Now, when you went --

Now, when you went downstairs, you waited outside for Mr. Merrill, correct?

# 756 A:

When I went downstairs, I went to the desk; I checked out --

# 757 Q:

I'm just asking you whether you waited outside; I'm trying to skip through some --

# 758 A:

No. By that time, I was waiting for the cab.

# 759 Q:

You were waiting outside.

# 760 A:

Before I walked outside the hotel, I told them to call me a cab.

Whichever got there first, I would have taken.

# 761 Q:

And then, while you were waiting for a cab, you're sitting on a bench outside, right?

# 762 A:

Yes.

# 763 Q:

And a Hertz colleague of yours drove up, a man named Jack Johnson, right?

# 764 A:

That's right.

# 765 Q:

And you told Jack Johnson that you were going to -- you were waiting to catch a cab to the airport, right?

# 766 A:

I think I told him, can somebody take me to the airport.

# 767 Q:

And he had with him an employee by the name of Raymond Kilduff, right?

# 768 A:

I have no idea.

# 769 Q:

And this fellow that was with Mr. Johnson ended up taking you to the airport, right?

# 770 A:

Yeah.

# 771 Q:

Okay.

And you told Mr. Johnson, before leaving for the airport, that you wanted to make sure you got your golf clubs back, didn't you?

# 772 A:

No, I don't think that's correct. I may have mentioned that Mr. Merrill was coming, and I was waiting for him, and if he can get to that -- I think we tried to call him from the car, to tell him that we were on our way to the airport and for him to, if he went to the airport -- just what flight I was on, if he wanted to put them on that flight.

# 773 Q:

If Mr. Kilduff said that, he would be mistaken, true?

# 774 A:

I think in substance, possibly no. But what I just said to you, I think, is more accurate.

# 775 Q:

If Mr. Kilduff testified in his deposition that before leaving the airport, you told Mr. Johnson, in his presence, that you wanted to make sure your golf clubs got back, Mr. Kilduff would not be telling the truth?

# 776 A:

No.

# 777 MR. BAKER:

I object.

# 778 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Is that correct?

# 779 MR. BAKER:

Hearsay and argumentative.

# 780 A:

That's correct.

# 781 THE COURT:

Just a minute; there's an objection.

Sustained.

# 782 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) After you got in the car with Mr. Kilduff --

# 783 MR. BAKER:

May that be stricken?

# 784 THE COURT:

It's stricken.

# 785 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) After you got in the car with Mr. Kilduff, you told Mr. Kilduff that you wanted your golf clubs to get to the airport, and asked him to make sure they got on the flight, correct?

# 786 A:

I told him Mr. -- I think we tried to call Mr. Merrill, I'm not sure, and I told him that -- just tell him to put them on the flight; if he can, put them on the flight, because I was going to try to make the 9:15 flight that I had arranged, opposed to the 10 o'clock flight that Cathy had arranged.

# 787 Q:

Now, in fact, while you were waiting to get in the car to leave to go to the airport, you were called in to the hotel front desk by the clerk, telling you that Mr. Merrill was on the phone, right?

# 788 A:

Yes. And he was five minutes away or something.

# 789 Q:

And Mr. -- you told Mr. Merrill to get those clubs on the next flight, true?

# 790 A:

I told him I couldn't wait; if he can, put them -- if he can, go straight to the airport; otherwise, put them on another flight.

# 791 Q:

And when -- when you left that Chicago hotel room, sir, at no time did you change your clothes, true?

# 792 A:

I believe that I had changed before I got on the plane.

I do recall being on the plane and my hand was bleeding pretty bad, and I think the stewardess brought me another band-aid, and I went in the bathroom and cleaned it.

And I don't have a distinct memory of changing my pants on the airplane. It could have happened. My memory is, I did it in the hotel room.

# 793 Q:

You did not wear, when you left the hotel and on your way to the airport, a blue-jean outfit and loafers, true?

# 794 A:

I think I had a blue-jean top, for sure.

# 795 Q:

Blue-jean pants?

# 796 A:

Pants, I believe I had -- I believe I put on the black pants before I left the hotel. I could have done it on the airplane.

My memory is, I still did it -- I still did it in my hotel room.

# 797 Q:

Well, I read you your deposition, sir.

# 798 A:

Yes.

# 799 Q:

And you said you put on those black pants and white shirt when you -- before you left the hotel room?

# 800 A:

It's the same white shirt that I would have had on.

# 801 Q:

At no time is your testimony, here in court, that at no time while you were in that car driving with Mr. Kilduff and on that airplane, sitting next to Mr. Partridge, did you have blue-jean pants on, true?

# 802 A:

My memory is that I changed the pants before I left.

I do remember throwing up on the airplane and bleeding, where the girl brought me a napkin. And I don't remember if I -- if I changed pants on the airplane. I could have.

My memory is that I did it at my hotel room, before I left.

# 803 Q:

Now, when you were sitting, waiting for Mr. Merrill or a cab to pick you up, you called Mr. Kato Kaelin on the telephone, did you not?

# 804 A:

I don't know. I was trying to call everybody.

# 805 Q:

You tried to call Mr. Kaelin, right?

# 806 A:

I don't recall if that was before I got on the airplane or when I was sitting out front. I -- I don't recall when that was.

# 807 Q:

Well, you tried reaching him, right?

# 808 A:

I tried calling everybody. I called everybody.

# 809 Q:

We're only talking about Mr. Kaelin.

# 810 A:

Yes, he was one the people I tried to call.

# 811 Q:

You had never before called Mr. Kaelin from out of town, true?

# 812 A:

To my knowledge.

# 813 Q:

Is that true?

# 814 A:

I was never in this position before.

# 815 Q:

Is that true, sir?

# 816 A:

Yes.

# 817 Q:

And you were calling Mr. Kaelin to find out what he told the police, right?

# 818 A:

No.

I was trying to get information on what was going on.

# 819 Q:

And you had admitted in your deposition, did you not, that you made an association between the murders and the sounds Kato Kaelin had heard the night before at your deposition?

# 820 A:

Not particularly.

But obviously, Kato was very upset when I left -- at least that's what Allan Park characterized it as.

So, yes, I may have made -- I don't recall if I made a connection or not. I knew I was calling Kato -- it was to get any information 'cause the police couldn't get any information.

# 821 Q:

Well, let me read from page 1435 of your deposition, line 12.

"When he talked about those noises, you were concerned that he might know something about the murder?

"A. What he might have found, I don't know.

"Q. So you made an association between the murder and those -- and the sounds that Kaelin heard?

"A. I may have."

True, sir?

# 822 A:

I may have. I just said that.

# 823 Q:

You may have, in your own thinking, associated the sounds that Kaelin heard behind his walls with the murder of Nicole?

# 824 A:

No. What I'm saying to you --

# 825 Q:

True?

# 826 A:

No. I told you I may have -- I mean, at the point --

# 827 Q:

Is it true that you may have made that association, sir?

# 828 A:

Certainly, since the time, I have made that association.

But certainly at that time, I don't think that that was anything that was prevalent on my mind, the noises behind Kato's room and the murders.

I just wanted to know from murder -- from Kato what was going on.

# 829 Q:

Sir, I wasn't asking you since that time.

At the time you had the call with Kato --

# 830 A:

Yes.

# 831 Q:

-- you may have made that association. True or untrue?

# 832 A:

I don't think so. At the time, I --

# 833 Q:

True or untrue?

# 834 A:

I don't know. I can't answer it at the time.

I don't -- my thought process was, just trying to get home and find out as much information --

# 835 MR. PETROCELLI:

Move to strike, Your Honor, all this additional material.

# 836 THE COURT:

That will remain.

# 837 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, on the -- on the airplane, going back to Los Angeles, you were crying and you were displaying signs of great distress, right?

# 838 A:

More than likely.

# 839 Q:

And yet, you still gave an autograph or two, didn't you?

# 840 A:

Yes.

# 841 Q:

So you --

# 842 A:

-- a lot easier doing that than to get into an argument with somebody about an autograph.

# 843 Q:

You are perfectly able, even when you are feeling very low and devastated, for that matter, to act normal in public and give autographs?

# 844 A:

Yes.

# 845 MR. BAKER:

Objection. Argumentative.

# 846 O.J. SIMPSON:

I've seen people not get in arguments --

# 847 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 848 O.J. SIMPSON:

-- into debates with the person --

# 849 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) I'm only asking if you're capable of doing so, sir. Yes or no?

# 850 A:

Evidently, was.

# 851 Q:

Thank you.

And by the way, before Nicole's death, you were an actor of a number of years, were you not?

# 852 A:

That's debatable.

# 853 Q:

You appeared in many, many roles, true?

# 854 A:

Yes.

# 855 Q:

And you're -- in television and motion pictures right?

# 856 A:

That's correct.

# 857 Q:

And you -- also, you appeared on -- you were a pitch man for a number of companies, pitching their products?

# 858 A:

Yes.

# 859 Q:

So you considered yourself a very effective salesman, didn't you?

# 860 A:

Salesman --

# 861 Q:

Yeah.

# 862 Q:

-- for the companies that you were endorsing?

# 863 A:

Yes.

I thought my representation was held -- well, with the companies that I chose to represent.

# 864 Q:

And you believe you knew how to act?

# 865 A:

I don't think I've ever called myself an actor in my life. I always said I was a personality.

I don't think anybody's ever called me an actor.

# 866 Q:

You recently appeared in a number of roles?

# 867 A:

That's correct.

# 868 Q:

Now, when you got back to LA, off that airplane --

Well, first of all, before I get to LA --

You had made a number of phone calls, as you said, right?

# 869 A:

Yes.

# 870 Q:

And included in those phone calls, were calls to get a criminal defense lawyer to meet you at Rockingham, right?

# 871 A:

I was advised by the guy next to me that I should have a lawyer there, and I told my lawyer that.

# 872 Q:

Is it your testimony that the only reason that Howard Weitzman was waiting for you when you got to Rockingham, is because some guy you never met before on an airplane told you so?

# 873 A:

I think --

# 874 Q:

Is that your testimony?

# 875 A:

I -- well, I think he told you the same thing.

# 876 Q:

That's your testimony?

# 877 A:

That's absolutely correct.

# 878 Q:

And if it wasn't for this perfect stranger, you would have had no concern for having a lawyer; is that true?

# 879 A:

That's correct. He was a lawyer. You mentioned his name; I can't recall his name. You mentioned his name a minute ago. But he was a lawyer and he, I guess, was listening to me on the phone. And as he, I guess, testified, he made a suggestion to me that maybe I should have -- if my lawyer was a criminal lawyer.

And I said no, he's my business lawyer.

He said, "You should call your lawyer back and have someone who's more of a criminal lawyer there," which I did.

# 880 Q:

So you're familiar with his testimony, aren't you?

# 881 A:

I'm familiar with what he told me.

# 882 Q:

You just recited his testimony, didn't you?

# 883 A:

I don't think they let him say that on the stand.

# 884 Q:

Okay.

# 885 A:

If I'm wrong there, you will show me, but I'm almost a hundred percent sure. They would not let that gentleman testify to that on the stand.

# 886 Q:

Now, when you got to LA, you were met there by Cathy Randa and Skip Taft, right?

# 887 A:

That's correct.

# 888 Q:

And they drove you, in Skip's car, to Rockingham, right?

# 889 A:

Yes.

# 890 Q:

And you arrived at Rockingham, not wearing a blue-jean outfit but this outfit that you said you put on at the hotel, correct?

# 891 A:

Black pants with a white shirt.

# 892 MR. PETROCELLI:

Can we have the footage of that?

# 893 O.J. SIMPSON:

But the same white shirt. I believe I even wore that underneath my blue-jean top.

# 894 MR. FOSTER:

Ready. Ready.

# 895 MR. PETROCELLI:

What exhibit number is this?

That's a white shirt and dark pants you see on that video.

# 896 O.J. SIMPSON:

That's the same white shirt I wore and -- that's the same white shirt.

# 897 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) You put those items on at the Chicago hotel room?

# 898 A:

I believe the pants -- the shirt I put on right away. The pants may be different.

# 899 Q:

You didn't have blue jeans on, did you?

# 900 A:

No, I -- there, I did not.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

O.J. Simpson

You cannot tell the jury how the cut -- how the glass actually cut your finger? True? That is correct.

Simpson concedes on the record that he cannot explain the mechanism of his most significant hand injury — the one bearing a permanent scar — devastating his Chicago hotel room story.

O.J. Simpson

I don't dispute I could have gotten this at any time. Including that time.

Simpson explicitly admits the small cuts on his hand could have been sustained between 10 and 11 p.m. on June 12 — the time of the murders.

O.J. Simpson

Unless it was Justin.

Simpson suggests his 7-year-old son may have caused the fingernail gouge mark on his fourth finger — an attribution Petrocelli immediately highlighted as absurd given the child's age and size.

O.J. Simpson

I was very emotional when I went in there at one point, and during that point a glass broke as I was going back and forth. It was a very emotional time for me.

Simpson's passive framing — 'a glass broke' rather than 'I broke a glass' — is repeatedly challenged by Petrocelli, who ultimately gets Simpson to admit he 'may have' slammed it on the counter.

O.J. Simpson

As I've told you on numerous occasions now, I couldn't tell you distinctly at what precise instant it happened, but it was during the process of going back and forth to the telephone, trying to pack my clothes, moving the glass out of the way.

Captures Simpson's recurring evasion pattern throughout the examination — acknowledging something happened while refusing to provide any specific details.

Evidence (8)

Plaintiffs' 1319

Photograph of hotel room bed in suite 915, Chicago O'Hare Plaza

displayed to identify bed where blood drop was found in center of sheets

Plaintiffs' 2156

Photograph of bathroom adjoining bedroom in suite 915

displayed to establish layout, absence of phone, location of glass-breaking incident

Plaintiffs' 1313

Photograph of blood-stained hand towel from Chicago hotel room

introduced; Simpson could not confirm or deny using it

Plaintiffs' 1316

Photograph of broken glass left in sink of hotel bathroom

introduced to show how Simpson left the scene

Plaintiffs' 714/715

Booklet of photographs of Simpson's hand injuries taken by Dr. Robert Huizenga on June 15, 1994

used to confront Simpson with multiple unexplained cuts — middle finger, fourth finger, and additional marks on the back of the hand

Plaintiffs' 172

Police station photograph of Simpson's hand taken June 13, 1994 in the presence of Vannatter, Lange, and Nurse Peratis

displayed to challenge Simpson's repeated reliance on police not noticing other injuries; disputed what injuries were visible

+ 2 more

Notable Exchanges (5)

Daniel Petrocelli•O.J. Simpson

Petrocelli used a water bottle as a prop to physically demonstrate how Simpson might have slammed the glass, systematically eliminating every other possible explanation (throwing it, stepping on it, kicking it) before getting Simpson to admit he 'may have' slammed it on the counter — then pressing 'Is that the best you can do for this jury?'

strategic

Daniel Petrocelli•O.J. Simpson

The 'Justin' exchange: Petrocelli identified a mark as a fingernail gouge; Simpson deflected by saying 'Unless it was Justin,' then had to clarify this was his 7-year-old son, prompting Petrocelli to repeat that the jury was being told an 80-pound child caused a defensive wound — Simpson then walked it back entirely.

revealing

Daniel Petrocelli•O.J. Simpson•Robert Baker

Heated dispute over whether Skip Taft's deposition testimony could be used to confront Simpson. Baker objected twice calling it improper; Fujisaki initially sustained, then after Petrocelli clarified Taft would testify, overruled. Simpson then called his loyal 30-year attorney incorrect.

heated

Daniel Petrocelli•O.J. Simpson

Petrocelli systematically walked through the mechanism of the hand cut — right-handed vs. left hand, sweeping vs. picking up, with towel or without — concluding with Simpson unable to provide any explanation for how glass physically contacted that specific part of his finger.

devastating

Robert Baker•Daniel Petrocelli

Baker objected to Petrocelli's comment 'I'm not interested in argument, just answer the question,' accusing Petrocelli of hypocrisy given his argumentative style all morning. Fujisaki overruled.

heated

Light Moments (1)

Daniel Petrocelli

Petrocelli picked up a water bottle to demonstrate how Simpson may have broken the glass, saying 'I wish I had a glass. I was supposed to have one. Let's use this.'

Credibility Attacks (4)

⚔ O.J. Simpson

prior inconsistent statement

Petrocelli confronted Simpson with the taped police statement from June 13, establishing that Simpson never mentioned a 'pinky' cut to police — only the middle finger — undermining his current testimony that the blood in the kitchen came from his pinky.

⚔ O.J. Simpson

impeachment via third-party testimony

Petrocelli used Skip Taft's deposition testimony — calling Taft honest and loyal to Simpson — to establish that Taft said Simpson had the fourth-finger injury at the police station on June 13, directly contradicting Simpson's repeated insistence it wasn't there.

⚔ O.J. Simpson

physical evidence contradiction

Petrocelli displayed the Huizenga photos (Exhibit 714/715) showing multiple unexplained injuries on Simpson's hand as of June 15, then pressed Simpson to admit he could not explain how he got any of them — and could not rule out sustaining them on the evening of June 12.

⚔ O.J. Simpson

implausible explanation

Petrocelli systematically eliminated every mechanism by which Simpson could have broken the glass (throwing it, dropping it, stepping on it) while also cutting the specific part of his left middle finger — leaving Simpson with no coherent account of his most significant hand injury.

Witness Demeanor

Repeatedly evasive: 'I don't know,' 'I don't recall,' 'I may have,' 'I couldn't tell you' used dozens of times across key factual questions

Became slightly combative when pressed on the same point multiple times: 'As I've told you on numerous occasions now, Mr. Petrocelli...'

Appeared to minimize injuries throughout: 'If you look at the wrinkles on your hand and look at those, they're so small'

Passive voice construction throughout glass incident: 'a glass broke' rather than 'I broke a glass'

Objections

14 objections (6 sustained, 7 overruled)

Proceeding 8397 • 900 utterances • Defense witness

Civil Trial

Department 103