Redirect examination of O.J. Simpson (part 4)

📄 Redirect examination of O.J. Simpson (part 4) — Friday, November 22, 1996

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TRIAL

▲ Day 21 of 57

◀ Cross-examination of O.J. Simpson (part 3) Cross-examination of O.J. Simpson (part 5) ▶

Witness: O.J. Simpson
Examiner: Robert Baker
Called by: Defense • Date: Friday, November 22, 1996 • Utterances: 555

Daniel Petrocelli cross-examines O.J. Simpson about his deteriorating relationship with Nicole in the weeks before her murder, focusing on a series of threatening letters Simpson sent regarding IRS/address issues, Nicole's diary entry recording violent threats Simpson allegedly made on June 3, and the unraveling of his relationship with Paula Barbieri the night before the murders. Simpson denies virtually everything, including ever using the word Nicole's diary quotes him using, while Petrocelli methodically uses Simpson's own documents and lawyer's notes against him.

# 1 (The instrument herein referred to as Fax cover page dated 5/26/94 and attached letter was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 811.)

# 2 Q:

Your lawyer reviewed the letter and revised it for you, didn't he?

# 3 A:

I took it to him because I felt it was somewhat harsh, and he made it, I feel, a little more official sounding.

# 4 Q:

And he sent you a revised version of the letter on May 26, 1994, correct?

# 5 A:

I believe so.

# 6 Q:

And of course, all of this is just a few days from May 22, which is when the jewelry was returned, correct?

# 7 A:

Yes.

# 8 MR. BAKER:

That's irrelevant and argumentative, Your Honor.

# 9 Q:

Let's go to this.

# 10 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 11 MR. PETROCELLI:

Could you make that a little bigger. Let me see the signature.

# 12 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Do you recognize that handwriting?

# 13 A:

No, not really.

# 14 Q:

That's Skip Taft's?

# 15 A:

Yes.

# 16 Q:

He's been with you what, 25 years?

# 17 A:

At least.

# 18 Q:

At least. Business manager, lawyer, friend?

# 19 A:

Yes.

# 20 Q:

The letter says, sir, "made changes you wanted but did not get revengeful"?

# 21 A:

Yes.

# 22 Q:

"Okay to sign and mail. Skip."

# 23 A:

Yes.

# 24 Q:

So there was a concern between Mr. Taft and you that your initial letter was revengeful, correct?

# 25 A:

I think that was a concern from me. That's why I brought it to him, because I think, as Cathy wrote it, it sounded rather harsh.

# 26 Q:

This is Cathy's letter, now, not yours? Is that what you're telling this jury, that Cathy Randa, the secretary --

# 27 A:

Um-hum.

# 28 Q:

-- wrote the letter that you, O.J. Simpson, had nothing to do with it?

# 29 A:

That's not -- I don't think that's been my testimony at all.

I told Cathy, in substance, one day, write a letter to Nicole about changing her address and finding another way to do it. Just tell her that she can't use my address. I don't want her coming to my house, hassling my housekeeper anymore.

And Cathy wrote the letter. And when the letter -- she faxed it to me -- it seemed very harsh to me.

So then I took it to my lawyer and told Skip, "Skip, read this. Here's the problem. Let's make it a little more official."

That's what he did.

# 30 Q:

And let's make it not so revengeful, too?

# 31 A:

Well, that may be his word. My word to him was "harsh." His word is "revengeful." But I didn't -- I thought the letter was rather harsh.

# 32 Q:

Now, in truth, Mr. Simpson, you were extremely unhappy and angry and there were feelings of revenge going on with you towards Nicole; true or untrue?

# 33 A:

Untrue.

# 34 Q:

And that is why your lawyer wrote back to you and said, I did not get revengeful? True or untrue?

# 35 A:

I think he did what I told -- instructed him to do.

# 36 Q:

True or untrue?

# 37 A:

Untrue.

# 38 Q:

Your lawyer, with this letter, sent you a revised draft of your initial draft which you cannot produce for us. Sir, you cannot produce the initial harsh draft, true?

# 39 A:

True.

# 40 Q:

Okay.

Do you know where it is?

# 41 A:

No.

# 42 Q:

Okay.

So let's go to the draft you received back from your good friend and colleague, Mr. Taft, May 31, 1994.

# 43 MR. PETROCELLI:

What's the exhibit number, Steve?

# 44 MR. FOSTER:

811.

# 45 MR. PETROCELLI:

811.

# 46 MR. FOSTER:

Page 2.

# 47 MR. PETROCELLI:

Okay. Can you move it to the left.

# 48 (Indicating to TV screen.)

# 49 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) (Reading:) "Dear Nicole: "On advice of legal counsel and because of the change in our circumstances, I am compelled to put you on written notice that you do not have my permission or authority to use my permanent home address at 360 North Rockingham Avenue, Los Angeles, California, 90049, as your residence or mailing address for any purpose, including but not limited to, information and tax returns filed with any taxing entity. "O.J. Simpson."

Do you see that?

# 50 A:

Yes.

# 51 Q:

And the change in circumstances, Mr. Simpson, was the final and official breakup between Nicole and you, true?

# 52 A:

In substance, yes.

# 53 Q:

That had occurred shortly before this letter-writing effort began, true?

# 54 A:

In substance, yes.

# 55 Q:

Okay.

Now, when you got that letter, you did not approve it, true?

# 56 A:

I'm sure I did; it got sent.

# 57 Q:

You sent a different version of it sir, did you not?

# 58 A:

You know, I don't really know. I don't.

# 59 Q:

Well, let's take a look.

# 60 MR. PETROCELLI:

This is exhibit what, Steve?

# 61 MR. FOSTER:

17.

# 62 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) 17. June 6, 1994, correct?

That's six days before Nicole's murder. Do you see that?

# 63 A:

Yes.

# 64 Q:

Via messenger. You know what that means?

# 65 A:

I think most of the stuff I sent Nicole was via messenger.

# 66 Q:

Hand-delivered?

# 67 A:

I think every note I sent her was via messenger.

# 68 Q:

This one, correct, was hand-delivered?

# 69 A:

I didn't deliver it.

I'm sure Cathy used the messenger service we always use.

# 70 MR. PETROCELLI:

Can you put the document on so I can focus on the second and third paragraph, the first paragraph, the same -- stop right there (indicating to TV screen.)

# 71 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) That's your signature, right?

# 72 A:

Possibly Cathy signed it for me.

# 73 Q:

You authorized her to sign it for you?

# 74 A:

Yes.

# 75 Q:

Now, second paragraph: (Reading:) "Because of your mail and phone calls coming to my address, it may be interpreted that you are using my address as your primary residence, when, in fact, your primary residence is 875 South Bundy Drive, Los Angeles, California 90049."

You see that?

# 76 A:

Yes.

# 77 Q:

And your purpose in including that paragraph was to make it absolutely clear that, in fact, your residence was not Nicole's primary residence, right?

# 78 A:

Absolutely.

# 79 Q:

Creating big problems for Nicole, correct?

# 80 A:

I don't think so, unless she got caught doing what she was doing; then I think it would have been a problem.

# 81 Q:

Last paragraph.

# 82 MR. BAKER:

Can you allow him to answer the question, Mr. Petrocelli --

# 83 MR. PETROCELLI:

I'm sorry.

# 84 MR. BAKER:

-- and not talk over him please?

# 85 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Big problems for Nicole, that was my question.

# 86 A:

If she got caught, I knew it would be big problems for her. I didn't want it to be big problems for me.

# 87 Q:

Last paragraph. (Reading:) "I cannot take part in any course of action by you that might intentionally or unintentionally be misleading to the Internal Revenue Service or California Franchise Tax Board."

Do you see that?

# 88 A:

Yes.

# 89 Q:

You really wanted to drive the point home there, correct?

# 90 A:

Yes.

# 91 Q:

And you wanted to put her on notice that she may be committing illegal violations of law, correct?

# 92 A:

Yes.

# 93 Q:

Misleading IRS, correct?

# 94 A:

Yes.

# 95 Q:

Something you would never do, correct?

# 96 A:

Yes.

# 97 Q:

And this is the mother of your children, correct?

# 98 A:

Yes.

# 99 Q:

And you knew that she had two choices: Pay the taxes or get out of the place and rent it, right?

# 100 A:

Yes.

# 101 Q:

And perhaps move back to you at Rockingham?

# 102 A:

Or she could have gotten somebody else to use the address.

# 103 Q:

And she could have come back to you, too, couldn't she?

# 104 A:

No, she couldn't.

# 105 Q:

This letter could have forced her hand to come back to you, true?

# 106 A:

That's absolutely false.

She had the money to pay the taxes, cause I forced her early on, before I allowed her to use my address, to put her tax money in a separate account, talk to her tax person, so in case we didn't get back together, she'll have the money to pay the taxes if they came after her for her taxes.

# 107 Q:

Mr. Simpson, you knew this letter would frighten Nicole; you knew it would upset her; correct?

# 108 A:

That was not my intention.

# 109 Q:

But you knew it would have that effect?

# 110 A:

I think subconsciously I wanted her to pay her taxes so she wouldn't lose the house that my kids were in.

KEY QUOTE

# 111 Q:

But you knew it would greatly upset her?

# 112 A:

I think my purpose --

# 113 Q:

Can you answer that question yes or no?

Did you know when you sent that letter to her threatening IRS action and all this --

# 114 A:

That's not --

# 115 MR. BAKER:

Wait. I object.

# 116 O.J. SIMPSON:

-- that's not threatening IRS --

# 117 MR. BAKER:

He hasn't threatened any IRS action.

# 118 THE COURT:

Excuse me.

Sustained.

# 119 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) You knew when you sent that letter talking about misleading the IRS, that this would greatly upset her, true --

# 120 MR. BAKER:

Calls for speculation.

# 121 Q:

-- or untrue?

# 122 MR. BAKER:

Calls for speculation on the part of this witness.

# 123 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 124 A:

No, not the way you said it, no.

# 125 Q:

Okay.

Now, the two of you had some very vile arguments about this issue prior to your sending the letter, true?

# 126 A:

That's absolutely wrong.

# 127 Q:

And you threatened her that you would be sending this letter, didn't you?

# 128 A:

No.

# 129 Q:

And on June 2, Thursday, you had a telephone call with Nicole and you hung -- excuse me -- she hung up on you on that call?

# 130 A:

No.

# 131 Q:

Right.

When Nicole hangs up on you, you get angry and you want to retaliate, true?

# 132 A:

No.

# 133 Q:

Let me see the entry.

# 134 MR. PETROCELLI:

What exhibit?

# 135 MR. FOSTER:

735.

# 136 (The instrument herein referred to as Diary page of Nicole Brown Simpson dated June 3 was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 735.)

# 137 MR. PETROCELLI:

Put it up there.

# 138 (Exhibit 735 displayed on TV screen.)

# 139 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) June 3, Friday, O.J. came to pick up kids at 8:30 p.m. They wanted to stay home because I let them organize sleep-overs.

# 140 MR. BAKER:

Is this a question or --

# 141 MR. PETROCELLI:

Excuse me.

# 142 MR. BAKER:

This is not a question.

# 143 MR. PETROCELLI:

Excuse me. I'm reading the entry into the record and I'm going to ask him some questions about it.

# 144 MR. BAKER:

Then I don't think reading entries into the record and asking him questions about it --

# 145 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 146 MR. BAKER:

That's improper.

# 147 THE COURT:

Go ahead.

# 148 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) (READING:) "June 3. O.J. came to pick up kids at 8:30 p.m. They wanted to stay home . . . at the last minute - thought daddy wasn't coming. Told O.J. I would drop them off first thing in the AM."

Let's stop right there.

Now, you did come over to Nicole's condo about 8:00, 8:30-ish on Friday, June 3, right?

# 149 A:

Yes.

# 150 Q:

And you went there to pick up the kids to take them home, for them to sleep at your house on Friday night and have them on Saturday, right?

# 151 A:

Yes.

# 152 Q:

You got there kind of on the late side, you think, unbeknownst to you, in the meantime, Nicole organized a sleep-over for the children, right?

# 153 A:

That's not true.

# 154 Q:

Well, when you got there, the kids were occupied with friends and you did not leave with the children, right?

# 155 A:

Yes.

# 156 Q:

Okay.

And Nicole said she would bring them over the next day, right?

# 157 A:

Or I could pick them up the next day.

# 158 Q:

Or you can pick them up?

# 159 A:

Yeah.

# 160 Q:

So you went there and you left without the kids, right?

# 161 A:

Yes.

# 162 Q:

And then the following exchange occurred between you and Nicole. You said to her: lm20 "You hung up on me last night. You're going to pay for this, bitch." True?

# 163 A:

Absolutely false.

# 164 Q:

(READING:) "You're holding money from the IRS, you're going to jail, you fucking cunt."

Did you say that?

# 165 A:

I have never used that phrase, ever, with anybody, in my life.

KEY QUOTE

# 166 Q:

And you certainly didn't use it on this occasion?

# 167 A:

Absolutely not.

# 168 Q:

Nicole just made all this up?

KEY QUOTE

# 169 A:

Absolutely. And this is not true.

# 170 Q:

"You think you can do any fucking thing. You've got it coming. I've already talked to my lawyers about this, bitch."

Is that all untrue?

# 171 A:

Yes.

# 172 Q:

Now, you had talked to your lawyers about the IRS issue, as we have just seen, true?

# 173 A:

True.

# 174 Q:

"They'll get you for tax evasion, bitch. I'll see to it. You're not going to have a fucking dime left, bitch," et cetera.

You said that, too, didn't you?

# 175 A:

Absolutely not.

# 176 Q:

And three days later, you hand-delivered the letter to Nicole, true?

# 177 A:

I think the next workday, Cathy may have sent it.

# 178 Q:

We're talking about you, not Cathy Randa.

# 179 A:

No. That's absolutely false.

# 180 Q:

You told Cathy to send that letter to Nicole that we just showed on the TV monitor, right?

# 181 A:

I told Cathy --

# 182 Q:

Yes or no?

# 183 A:

A week, weeks earlier to send a letter. And I gather this was three days later, may have been Monday or Tuesday after the holiday, and she finally sent the letter.

# 184 Q:

So Cathy just happened to send it the very next Monday after you and Nicole have this fight on Friday. Total coincidence, is that what you're saying?

# 185 A:

I would have expected it to be sent on Thursday or Friday of that week, yes.

# 186 Q:

So you're saying the fact that this letter was sent on Monday, the 6th, by hand delivery, had absolutely nothing to do with a conversation you had with Nicole on Friday, June 3. Is that what you're telling this jury?

# 187 A:

Yes, that's what I'm telling this jury.

# 188 Q:

Okay.

And you threatened Nicole with this IRS issue because you knew it was a way to retaliate against her because she was not doing what you wanted her to do?

# 189 A:

That's not true.

# 190 Q:

That's why you made the letter even tougher than your lawyer had advised, true?

# 191 A:

I don't know. I think even the second portion of the letter I did -- I did with my lawyer.

# 192 Q:

And you know that when Nicole got this letter, she was absolutely devastated; you know that, don't you?

# 193 A:

No, I hadn't seen her after she got this letter.

# 194 Q:

And by the way, June 4, 9 o'clock a.m., the next morning, do you see that entry? That's Saturday morning. Do you see that, sir?

# 195 A:

Yes.

# 196 Q:

"I drove the kids over to Rockingham. No one answered. No one was home to take the kids. So I took them over again at 1 p.m. They spent the night."

Now, in the morning on Saturday, June 4, you were at your most favorite place, that is, Riviera Country Club, and you were playing golf, right?

# 197 A:

Um, a part of that is true, part of it is not true.

# 198 Q:

You tee off 6:00, 7 o'clock, get back after you do your lunch and your cards and all that, you're back by what 1, 2 o'clock?

# 199 A:

It depends.

# 200 Q:

And you weren't home at 9 O'clock in the morning on June 4, right?

# 201 A:

I would think not. It was a Saturday morning.

# 202 Q:

And the kids were then dropped off later at 1 o'clock p.m. and they spent the night with you Saturday, June 4, right?

# 203 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 204 Q:

In fact, you took them, with Paula, to a pediatric AIDS event Sunday, June 5?

# 205 A:

And some more people, yes.

# 206 Q:

Correct?

# 207 A:

Yes.

# 208 Q:

So, in other words, everything in these diary entries that we just showed you is true, except where Nicole reports what you said to her?

# 209 A:

Yes.

# 210 Q:

And all that's a pack of lies, right?

# 211 A:

Yes.

# 212 MR. PETROCELLI:

You can take it off.

# 213 (Indicating to TV screen.)

# 214 Q:

The weekend before, Mr. Simpson, you went to Palm Springs with Paula Barbieri to attend a birthday party thrown by your good friend, Alan Austin, for his wife, Gail, right?

# 215 A:

I don't think that's why we went, but I think while we were there, Alan had a dinner.

# 216 Q:

Dinner party, right?

# 217 A:

Yes.

# 218 Q:

You were there?

# 219 A:

Yes.

# 220 Q:

Alan and Gail were there?

# 221 A:

Yes.

# 222 Q:

Skip Taft?

# 223 A:

Yes.

# 224 Q:

His wife was there?

# 225 A:

Yes.

# 226 Q:

A woman named Donna Estes was there?

# 227 A:

Yes.

# 228 Q:

And her boyfriend?

# 229 A:

Probably.

# 230 Q:

And you went there on Saturday, and Paula Barbieri joined you there, right, correct, Memorial Day weekend?

# 231 A:

I don't know.

My memory is that Paula and I went together.

# 232 Q:

Let me see if I can refresh it a little bit.

Paula came with you, drove separately, met you at LaQuinta, and you and she had an argument that Saturday that resulted in Paula leaving LaQuinta before the dinner, correct?

# 233 A:

Partially correct, partially not correct.

We Went together.

# 234 Q:

And she left separately, right?

# 235 A:

Yes.

# 236 Q:

And you played golf that morning, right?

# 237 A:

Yes.

# 238 Q:

Played -- it was about 100 degrees, right?

# 239 A:

Who knows.

# 240 Q:

Then -- and you wanted to play a second round after the first round, right?

# 241 A:

I think what we did was, we got there at about 4:00 in the morning. I got up at 6:00, went and played golf.

When I got back, Paula was pretty upset; she left. And I went back out and played with the guys again.

# 242 Q:

One of them was a fellow named Jackie Cooper, right?

# 243 A:

Yes.

# 244 Q:

Old friend of yours, and your boyhood friend, Al Cowlings, right?

# 245 A:

I don't believe -- say that again.

# 246 Q:

Mr. Cooper is a friend of yours and a friend of Al Cowlings, right?

# 247 A:

He's a tennis pro there at LaQuinta.

# 248 Q:

Paula was upset with you because you got up and wanted to play golf and didn't want to spend time with her, right?

# 249 A:

Yeah. I think she wanted to wake up with me.

# 250 Q:

And you guys had an argument, and she took off, right?

# 251 A:

I don't think we really had an argument. She just said she was leaving.

# 252 Q:

One of the things that happened in that argument with Paula is, she said to you, you know, you broke my heart a year ago and I came back to you when you said that it was over with Nicole, right?

# 253 A:

I don't recall this.

# 254 Q:

And she said to you, or she asked you, do you still love Nicole, correct?

# 255 MR. BAKER:

Objection. This is all hearsay.

# 256 A:

I don't recall this at this time.

# 257 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 258 O.J. SIMPSON:

I --

# 259 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Do you still love Nicole? She asked you that, right?

# 260 MR. BAKER:

Objection. Hearsay.

# 261 A:

I don't recall this.

# 262 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 263 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) And you said, yes, I do?

# 264 A:

I always loved Nicole.

KEY QUOTE

# 265 Q:

And you told that to Paula on that day, right?

# 266 A:

If she would have asked me that day, as if she would have asked me in the year we were together, I would have said I always loved Nicole; I always loved Marguerite.

# 267 Q:

And that evening you went to dinner without Paula, right?

# 268 A:

Yeah, I believe so.

# 269 Q:

And you talked -- you're a big talker, aren't you? You like to talk, right?

# 270 A:

Yes.

# 271 Q:

And you talked a lot at dinner that night about Paula leaving and about Nicole, right?

# 272 A:

I don't think it was a lot at all. I think everybody talked about various things, and the subject of Paula and Nicole came up at one point, yes.

# 273 Q:

And you told the folks at the table that Paula left because she was upset, and you told them she asked you if you loved Nicole, and you said yes, and she split?

# 274 A:

Paula left because I got up to play golf.

# 275 Q:

Did you tell that to the folks that you ate dinner that night?

# 276 A:

Not the way you said it.

# 277 Q:

Did you?

# 278 A:

No.

# 279 Q:

Did you tell that to Donna Estes? Yes or no?

# 280 A:

I didn't have a private conversation with Donna Estes.

# 281 Q:

Did you tell it to Donna Estes at the dinner table? Yes or no?

# 282 A:

I never had a private conversation with Donna Estes.

# 283 Q:

Did you say it to her in her company, in her presence that evening?

# 284 A:

Not the way you said it.

# 285 Q:

Did you say it in some other way?

# 286 A:

Yeah. I think during the course of the conversation, Paula left. I think we knew during the day that Paula was upset. When we got back from golf, she was visibly upset. She decided to leave. And I think we spoke in general about not my relationship, everybody's relationship. And during the course of that conversation, I'm sure Nicole's name came into that conversation.

# 287 Q:

The truth of the matter is, you spoke all night about Nicole, didn't you?

# 288 A:

No, that's not the truth of the matter.

# 289 Q:

Now, around this same period of time, Memorial Day weekend, maybe the days before Memorial Day weekend, you had another argument with Nicole about a charity event at Cedars-Sinai Hospital and a Sports Spectacular event?

# 290 A:

Slightly. I can't say we had an argument.

Nicole called me, yelling at me, slightly before -- I believe there -- this -- this was slightly before Memorial Day weekend.

# 291 Q:

That's what I thought.

# 292 A:

Yes.

# 293 Q:

Okay. Slightly before Memorial Day weekend?

# 294 A:

Yes.

# 295 Q:

Nicole called you and was yelling at you, saying you were trying to steal her friends away, right?

# 296 A:

Exactly.

# 297 Q:

And she got upset because you were going to go to this event with Paula and you were going to invite some of her friends, correct?

# 298 A:

That's not correct.

# 299 Q:

You were -- she was upset because her friends were invited to attend this event?

# 300 A:

Her friends asked to go to this event, so...

# 301 Q:

They were going to go with you, right?

# 302 A:

Yes.

# 303 Q:

And Nicole and you argued about that because you were taking her friends away, in her view?

# 304 A:

No, we didn't. She called, yelled, and hung up.

# 305 Q:

Hung up on you?

# 306 A:

Yes.

# 307 Q:

So is it fair to say, end of May, going into June 3 and June 6, things are not very good between Nicole and you?

You guys are at each other, aren't you?

# 308 A:

I disagree with that.

I was -- I was just opposite at her, cause I had gone back to what I had done the previous year; I was avoiding her.

# 309 Q:

Nicole was upset with you quite a bit during this time frame, wasn't she?

Wasn't she, sir?

# 310 A:

Because I didn't talk to her during this time frame. I don't know what she was, because I was avoiding her.

# 311 Q:

Was she or wasn't she? That's what I want to know.

# 312 A:

I couldn't tell you, because I wouldn't talk to her after the hang-up.

# 313 Q:

Now, on June 6 --

In fact, the day you hand-delivered that letter that we just saw, you went over to Nicole's house to pick up Justin, didn't you?

# 314 A:

What day was June 6?

# 315 Q:

Monday.

# 316 A:

I'm not sure of that.

# 317 Q:

You went to get --

# 318 A:

I know Justin was with me.

# 319 Q:

You went to get Chachi?

# 320 A:

Justin, I believe, was with me. I believe we went over to pick up -- Nicole had called and said something about the dogs were fighting, and so I went over to get the dog.

# 321 Q:

And when you went there, you saw Nicole on the balcony and she said nothing to you and you said nothing to her, true?

# 322 A:

Nothing, yeah, other than the dogs, something to that effect.

# 323 Q:

No conversation between the two of you, true?

# 324 A:

None.

Yes.

# 325 Q:

The next day, June 7, Tuesday, you told your friend at Riviera, Alan Austin, that it was -- you announced to him it was over with Nicole for good, true?

# 326 A:

Not -- no, no, that's not right.

# 327 Q:

You told Mr. Austin on Tuesday, June 7, that it was finally over once and for all, true?

# 328 A:

No, I don't believe so. I think Alan knew a month ago, previous, it was over.

But Alan, like her friends, at times, would also -- oh, you guys are going to get back together. And if Nicole came up that day, I probably just emphasized to him no, Alan, this is not happening.

# 329 Q:

And you flew back east that day, right?

# 330 A:

That's correct.

# 331 Q:

And in the evening, you called to speak to the kids, right, in Washington, D.C., I think?

# 332 A:

I know I normally do. I'm sure I did.

# 333 Q:

And there was no conversation between you and Nicole on the telephone, true?

# 334 A:

One of the nights Nicole asked me was I going to go -- to be back for the recital.

Other than that, I don't believe there was any conversation between us.

# 335 Q:

So it's fair to say, during this week leading up to her murder, there is virtually zero communication between Nicole and you, true?

# 336 A:

Well, other than the dog and the kids, I --

# 337 Q:

True?

# 338 A:

That's not necessarily true.

There was zero conversation between Nicole and I on any subject outside of the kids. But I think we had a brief thing because of the dog.

# 339 Q:

Maybe a few words about kids and dogs; and other than that, zero?

# 340 A:

Of mine was -- that was what I was doing.

# 341 Q:

Is that true?

# 342 A:

That's true.

# 343 Q:

Okay.

Now, you also missed on that Tuesday, June 7, Justin's graduation from the Sunshine School, right?

# 344 A:

I don't think it was Tuesday. I thought it was, like, Wednesday or Thursday.

# 345 Q:

You missed it, right?

# 346 A:

Yes.

I didn't know about it, so it was -- essentially, I missed it.

# 347 Q:

Nicole expressed some upset at you for missing that event, as well, true?

# 348 A:

Not at all. She didn't even talk about it.

Justin asked me when I called Thursday.

# 349 Q:

Now, around this period of time, you're back east, right?

# 350 A:

I'm working back east, yes.

# 351 Q:

Yeah. You're back there Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and you returned on Friday, June 10, right?

# 352 A:

That's correct.

# 353 Q:

Another letter, at your request, was sent out to Nicole, true?

# 354 A:

I don't believe so.

# 355 Q:

If Cathy Randa testified that she had that hand-delivered, would you accept that?

# 356 A:

Depending on the letter, but I really don't believe so.

# 357 MR. PETROCELLI:

Well, let's look at it.

# 358 (The instrument herein referred to as a Letter dated June 8, 1994, from O.J. Simpson to Nicole Brown Simpson was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 812.)

# 359 (Exhibit 812 displayed on TV screen.)

# 360 Q:

This is a letter dated June 8, 1994. (Reading:) "Dear Nicole: "To set the record straight, when Arnelle, Jason, or myself are at home to watch the kids, especially around the pool, they are welcome here at any time. I would love to have them 14 [sic] hours a day, as it is their home, too."

# 361 A:

I think that's 24.

# 362 Q:

24 hours a day. Excuse me. "However, Gigi is not an emergency cook, baby-sitter or errand runner for you!" Exclamation point. "She is an employee of mine and I expect you to respect that now and in the future."

# 363 A:

Yes.

# 364 Q:

Pretty stern letter, isn't it?

# 365 A:

I don't know how you want to characterize it, but it was never sent.

# 366 Q:

So if Cathy Randa said it was, she would not be telling the truth?

# 367 A:

I -- she would not be telling the truth.

This letter was never sent.

# 368 Q:

You dictated it, didn't you?

# 369 A:

I dictated it, possibly, around the time I was doing the IRS letter, but I purposely told Cathy not to send the letter unless Nicole continues to hassle Gigi while I was gone, so if when I returned from this trip, that Gigi told me Nicole had continued to hassle her, I would have sent the letter.

# 370 Q:

When you went back east on this trip, you were playing golf. I think it was in Virginia, right?

# 371 A:

Yeah. Yes.

# 372 Q:

And you flew to Connecticut and you had a meeting at the Forstner Corporation, the Swiss Army Knife company?

# 373 A:

Yes.

# 374 Q:

Then you took a limo down to Long Island to meet up with your good friend, Bobby Bender, right?

# 375 A:

Correct.

# 376 Q:

And played golf there on Thursday afternoon, and then went over to Bobby Bender's house, and with his wife, Robin, and their family, had dinner there?

# 377 A:

Correct.

# 378 Q:

And slept over, right?

# 379 A:

Yes.

# 380 Q:

Now, that night, you had conversations with Bobby Bender about the fact that your relationship with Nicole had broken up, right?

# 381 A:

Yeah. I'm sure it came up, yes.

# 382 Q:

And you told Mr. Bender that you were upset about it, right?

# 383 A:

Yeah.

I was disappointed, probably more than upset, that we couldn't make it work.

# 384 Q:

You were depressed that night?

# 385 A:

No.

# 386 Q:

In fact, you were so depressed that Mr. Bender couldn't even get you out of the chair to play golf the next day?

# 387 A:

That wasn't about depression; that was about my knees and hands being swollen from flying and playing golf. I had to be helped even on the golf course the next day. It was not about being upset.

# 388 Q:

Couldn't have been about being upset or depressed about Nicole?

# 389 A:

No, it was about too much flying and too much golf, and my arthritis had kind of taken over.

# 390 Q:

Okay.

You left -- well, the next morning, with all this arthritis --

By the way, you're playing golf, like, every single today?

# 391 A:

Hey, I've done it, and most of the guys will tell you that play with me, sometimes they have to help me down hills.

I still get on the golf course.

# 392 Q:

Friday morning, you played golf in Long Island again?

# 393 A:

Yes.

# 394 Q:

Then you took a plane back to Los Angeles, right?

# 395 A:

That's right.

# 396 Q:

Picked up at the airport by Paula Barbieri, driven to Rockingham, had dinner, went to bed, Paula sleeping at your house that night, true?

# 397 A:

For a while. I think she may have left in the middle of the night.

# 398 Q:

You got up the next morning on Saturday, June 11, at about 6:00 a.m. and you went to play golf at Riviera, right?

# 399 A:

That's correct.

# 400 Q:

When you came back from golf, you spent the afternoon at Rockingham with Kato Kaelin, talking for a bit of time, correct?

# 401 A:

I believe so, yes.

# 402 Q:

And also, Ron Fischman man stopped by; you chatted with him for a while?

# 403 A:

Yes.

# 404 Q:

And you and Ron were commiserating about your failed relationships, right?

# 405 A:

I think -- yeah. I think that was possibly the tone of the conversation, about the girls.

# 406 Q:

And in the afternoon, you watched this Garp movie and pointed out this fellatio scene to Kato Kaelin, did you not?

# 407 A:

Yeah.

# 408 Q:

Huh?

# 409 A:

I -- that's always been one of my favorite scenes in the movie.

# 410 Q:

You pointed it out to him, and mentioned at the time when you saw Nicole having oral sex with this fellow Keith, right?

# 411 A:

I don't believe so, no.

# 412 Q:

That part you don't remember?

# 413 A:

I don't think I would have talked to Kato about that incident.

# 414 Q:

Now, by that time, you had heard that Nicole was out looking for a new condominium in Malibu, right?

# 415 A:

I didn't know that.

# 416 Q:

You found that out subsequently, didn't you?

# 417 A:

I found that out when I was in jail, yes.

# 418 Q:

That she was moving because of the IRS letter that you sent, right?

# 419 A:

That's not what I heard, the way I heard it, but....

# 420 Q:

But she was moving, right?

# 421 A:

I believe so.

I heard it from a friend of hers that said that she was trying to get away from the people she was hanging around.

# 422 Q:

Nothing to do with the IRS letter, just her friends?

# 423 A:

Marianna said Nicole had met with her Saturday.

# 424 Q:

You don't have to tell me that --

# 425 A:

She wanted to get away from people she was hanging around.

# 426 Q:

Excuse me, Mr. Simpson. I didn't ask what she said to you.

# 427 A:

I thought you did.

# 428 Q:

Are you telling us, based on what you have heard and learned, that Nicole's decision to get a new place in Malibu had absolutely nothing to do with the position that you took on this IRS issue?

# 429 A:

I don't believe it did.

# 430 Q:

Thank you.

Now, that night, Saturday, you went to a formal event with Paula Barbieri, right?

# 431 A:

Yes.

# 432 Q:

This was kind of a fancy party honoring the then first lady of Israel?

# 433 A:

I thought it was for a hospital in Israel, and the first lady was the -- was the host, I believe, yes.

# 434 Q:

Okay.

And you went with Paula, right?

# 435 A:

Yes.

# 436 Q:

And by the way, when you played golf that day, you went back to Rockingham, you hung around Rockingham until it was time to go to the event, right?

# 437 A:

I believe I -- I know I tried to call Paula at some time in that period of time, but basically, that's correct.

# 438 Q:

And Paula lived on Wilshire Boulevard then, right?

# 439 A:

Yes.

# 440 Q:

She had an apartment there?

# 441 A:

Condominium.

# 442 Q:

Yeah.

You picked Paula up and you went to this event, right?

# 443 A:

Yes.

# 444 Q:

And at this event, you and Paula talked about things like filling rooms of your house up with babies, right?

# 445 A:

That's not exactly correct.

She was commenting on this house and we said -- and then she said something about how would you like to fill -- try to fill this house up with babies, yes.

# 446 Q:

So the two of you were kind of talking about having children, maybe getting married, filling the rooms up with babies. It was sort of a warm conversation, fair enough?

# 447 A:

We weren't talking about getting married at all. But, you know, it's just something that was said about trying to fill this house up with babies. But we certainly were in a very loving mood, yes.

# 448 Q:

And you left there in a loving mood, right?

# 449 A:

Yeah. For the most part, yes.

# 450 Q:

You dropped her off at her her condo on Wilshire and you did not spend the night with her, right?

# 451 A:

Yeah. I was a little tired.

# 452 Q:

You went back to Rockingham --

# 453 A:

Yes.

# 454 Q:

-- and went to sleep.

And the next morning, you got up around 6:00 a.m. and you went to Riviera to play golf, right?

# 455 A:

Yes.

# 456 Q:

Now, in fact, sir, you and Paula had a disagreement that evening, true?

# 457 A:

Absolutely not.

# 458 Q:

You had a disagreement with Paula Barbieri because she wanted to go to the recital and be there with you and be there when Nicole would be there, so that you would accept her in Nicole's presence for the first time; is that true?

# 459 A:

That's absolutely not true.

# 460 Q:

And you and she fought about the fact that she -- you would not let her go to the recital because you did not feel comfortable having her at the recital because Nicole would be there; is that true?

# 461 A:

That's absolutely not true.

# 462 Q:

Now, the next morning -- and you know this from reviewing your cell phone records, sir -- she left an eight-minute message on your voice mail, ending your relationship, right?

# 463 A:

She left a message. I found out later, I guess, when I was in jail, I believe, that she had left a message, yes.

# 464 Q:

Ending the relationship, right?

# 465 A:

No, doing exactly what she did in Palm Springs.

# 466 Q:

She told you she didn't want to have anything more to do with you anymore, right?

# 467 A:

I don't know. I never heard the message.

# 468 Q:

You sat in at Paula Barbieri's deposition -- I questioned her about this in this case -- did you not?

# 469 A:

Yes.

# 470 Q:

And you heard Ms. Barbieri testify that she sent you that message at 7:00 in the morning, telling you that it was over. Then she left town and did not tell you where she was going, right?

# 471 A:

Yes.

I don't know if that's exactly what she said.

# 472 Q:

Close enough.

# 473 A:

I knew she was going to Arizona or Vegas, or she made words to that effect.

# 474 Q:

And she left you that message breaking up with you, sir, because you and she fought, fought about Nicole once again; true or untrue?

# 475 A:

I know absolutely, and I sat in that deposition, and she did not say that, absolutely.

# 476 Q:

Is that true or untrue, that --

# 477 A:

That is --

# 478 Q:

-- the two of you fought over Nicole that night?

# 479 A:

That is absolutely not what she said in her deposition.

# 480 Q:

I didn't ask you what you she said.

# 481 A:

I thought you were talking about her deposition.

# 482 Q:

I asked you if it was true or untrue.

# 483 A:

It's totally untrue.

# 484 Q:

The next morning on the golf course, sir -- you played golf with these guys for quite a long time, right?

# 485 A:

Yes.

# 486 Q:

Alan Austin?

# 487 A:

Yes.

# 488 Q:

Craig Baumgarten?

# 489 A:

Yes.

# 490 Q:

Bob Hoskins?

# 491 A:

Yes.

# 492 Q:

Michael Keori, who has since passed away?

# 493 A:

Yes.

# 494 Q:

You told Alan Austin and you told Craig Baumgarten that you and Paula, to use your words, had a "beef" the night before?

# 495 A:

Absolutely not.

# 496 Q:

And you told Paula that -- you told Alan Austin and you told Craig Baumgarten that Paula was pretty upset with you?

# 497 A:

Absolutely not.

# 498 Q:

And in fact, on the golf course that morning, you had a near physical confrontation with Craig Baumgarten, right?

# 499 A:

I disagree with that.

# 500 Q:

Did you or didn't you?

# 501 A:

Did not.

# 502 Q:

You exchanged words and almost came to blows, right?

# 503 A:

Didn't come near to blows. It was something that happens virtually every day on the golf course, somebody has an argument in my group.

# 504 Q:

Isn't it fair to say that you had never been that angry at him as you were for a few moments that morning?

# 505 A:

With Craig, I've been angry with him, but it was the first time that -- one of the few times that I had words -- normally I'd be that angry with Alan, also, not Craig.

# 506 Q:

But you were really angry with Craig that morning?

# 507 A:

Yes.

I was angry with -- with -- with Craig on that hole, yes.

# 508 Q:

Now, you left.

After you played golf that morning, you played some cards, right?

# 509 A:

Yes.

# 510 Q:

Left Riviera around 2:00 p.m.?

# 511 A:

I believe so.

# 512 Q:

And you drove to the golf course in your Bronco, right, sir?

# 513 A:

Yes.

# 514 Q:

The Bronco that you normally parked on Ashford, right?

# 515 A:

Yes.

# 516 Q:

Ashford, right near the mailbox, right?

# 517 A:

Not always, but I would say more than any other place, yes.

# 518 Q:

Normally, right?

# 519 A:

Yes.

# 520 Q:

And one of the reasons, by the way, is, it's closer from the mailbox to the front door than it is from Rockingham to the front door, right?

# 521 A:

That's correct.

# 522 Q:

And you don't need your key to get in because you can kind of jiggle that gate and get through, right?

# 523 A:

I think I had to punch it, so it wouldn't matter.

# 524 Q:

Wouldn't matter, you could just clip it?

# 525 A:

I believe so.

# 526 Q:

If you didn't have it, you could jiggle the gate and get in?

# 527 A:

Yes.

# 528 Q:

Now, when you left -- when you left Riviera, you made some phone calls from the Bronco, on the way home, actually. You were on your way to Paula's, right?

# 529 A:

I was attempting to make some phone calls, but it's pretty tough along that stretch on Sunset.

# 530 Q:

And then you made a couple cell phone calls to Paula and couldn't get through, right?

# 531 A:

Yes.

# 532 Q:

Then you got through and discovered that she was not there, right?

# 533 A:

At some point, yes.

# 534 Q:

And then you decided not to go there because she wasn't home, right?

# 535 A:

Yes.

# 536 Q:

Then you also called Nicole's condominium at 2:18 p.m., according to your cell phone records, right?

# 537 A:

That's correct.

# 538 Q:

And you spoke for four minutes, right?

# 539 A:

Not really.

# 540 Q:

And your cell phone records show 2:18 to 2:22. The call was four minutes.

# 541 A:

The call may have been four minutes.

# 542 Q:

And your lawyer, in opening statements, said that you --

# 543 MR. BAKER:

I object to anything that --

# 544 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 545 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) You talked to Nicole about taking Justin off her hands because she was getting Sydney ready for her big recital, right?

# 546 A:

That was I think a second or third phase of the conversation.

# 547 Q:

And Nicole said no, that she did not want you to take Justin, true?

# 548 A:

I believe Erin was there or about to arrive. Dominique either was there -- somebody was about to arrive, Shauna or Erin or someone, they were playing or she was going to have them play.

# 549 Q:

So you didn't take Justin, right?

# 550 A:

No.

# 551 Q:

Okay. And you then drove home, right?

# 552 A:

Yes.

# 553 Q:

And kept calling Paula several times, right?

# 554 A:

I think I tried to right when I got home, maybe -- I think, yeah, I -- I think I may have when I hung up with Nicole. I think I may have tried her. I'm not sure if I tried her again until after I got back from the recital but I may have. But I -- I know I left a message on her machine, but I thought it was in the car right after I finished talking to Nicole, and I don't really think I tried her once I got home.

# 555 Q:

Now, you made these phone calls from your cell phone because your cell phone was in the Bronco, right?

Temperature

heated

Key Quotes (5)

O.J. Simpson

I have never used that phrase, ever, with anybody, in my life.

Simpson's flat denial of Nicole's diary entry quoting him calling her 'you fucking cunt' — one of the most inflammatory denials in the proceeding

O.J. Simpson

I always loved Nicole.

Simpson admits he told Paula Barbieri — while they were together — that he still loved Nicole, directly explaining why Paula left him and providing motive context

O.J. Simpson

I think subconsciously I wanted her to pay her taxes so she wouldn't lose the house that my kids were in.

Inadvertent 'subconsciously' admission undercuts his claim of purely benign intent with the IRS letter

Skip Taft (via exhibit)

made changes you wanted but did not get revengeful

His own lawyer's handwritten note contradicts Simpson's claim the letter had nothing to do with revenge or retaliation

O.J. Simpson

Nicole just made all this up?... Absolutely. And this is not true.

Simpson's wholesale denial of Nicole's diary — claiming she fabricated the verbatim threats — is a high-stakes credibility gamble before the jury

Evidence (5)

Plaintiffs' 811

Fax cover page dated 5/26/94 with Skip Taft's handwritten note 'made changes you wanted but did not get revengeful' attached to revised letter to Nicole

introduced and used to impeach Simpson's claim the letter had no retaliatory purpose

Plaintiffs' 17

Letter dated June 6, 1994, hand-delivered to Nicole, warning her about IRS and California Franchise Tax Board consequences of using Simpson's Rockingham address

discussed to establish timeline and retaliatory intent

Plaintiffs' 735

Nicole Brown Simpson's diary page dated June 3, 1994, recording Simpson's alleged verbal threats including 'You're going to pay for this, bitch' and 'You're holding money from the IRS, you're going to jail, you fucking cunt'

read into the record; Simpson denied every attributed statement

Plaintiffs' 812

Letter dated June 8, 1994 from Simpson to Nicole about Gigi (housekeeper), telling Nicole to 'respect' that Gigi is 'not an emergency cook, baby-sitter or errand runner for you'

introduced; Simpson claimed it was never sent, contradicting what Cathy Randa allegedly told plaintiffs

Informal

Simpson's cell phone records showing 2:18–2:22 p.m. call to Nicole's condo on June 12

referenced to establish timeline on day of murders

Notable Exchanges (4)

Daniel Petrocelli•O.J. Simpson

Petrocelli reads Nicole's diary entry quoting Simpson making violent, profane threats on June 3. Simpson denies every line, including ever using the word in question 'with anybody, in my life.' Petrocelli then notes that Simpson confirmed every other factual detail in those same diary entries — just not the quotes attributed to him.

devastating

Daniel Petrocelli•O.J. Simpson

Petrocelli uses Skip Taft's handwritten fax note ('did not get revengeful') to pin Simpson on the retaliatory purpose of the IRS letter. Simpson tries to distinguish between his word 'harsh' and Taft's word 'revengeful,' but concedes he cannot produce the original draft.

strategic

Daniel Petrocelli•O.J. Simpson

Petrocelli walks Simpson through the Paula Barbieri Memorial Day blowup at LaQuinta — Simpson played golf instead of staying with her, she left early, and he admitted at dinner that he still loved Nicole. Simpson concedes the basic facts but minimizes the emotional weight.

revealing

Daniel Petrocelli•O.J. Simpson

Petrocelli presses Simpson on his near-physical altercation with Craig Baumgarten on the golf course the morning of the murders. Simpson first denies it, then admits he was 'really angry' with Craig on that hole, calling it something that 'happens virtually every day' — a notable minimization.

tense

Light Moments (2)

O.J. Simpson

After Petrocelli remarks that Simpson plays golf 'like, every single day,' Simpson cheerfully concedes: 'Hey, I've done it, and most of the guys will tell you that play with me, sometimes they have to help me down hills. I still get on the golf course.'

O.J. Simpson

Simpson volunteers that the fellatio scene from The World According to Garp 'has always been one of my favorite scenes in the movie' — a moment of startling candor mid-examination.

Credibility Attacks (4)

⚔ O.J. Simpson

Prior inconsistent statement / documentary impeachment

Petrocelli uses Skip Taft's handwritten note on Exhibit 811 — 'did not get revengeful' — to contradict Simpson's claim the IRS letter was purely about protecting his legal interests, not retaliation

⚔ O.J. Simpson

Selective denial / internal inconsistency

After Simpson denies Nicole's diary quotes, Petrocelli points out that Simpson confirmed every other factual detail in those same entries (kids' sleepover, him leaving without kids, etc.) — framing the denials as cherry-picked lies: 'So in other words, everything in these diary entries that we just showed you is true, except where Nicole reports what you said to her?'

⚔ O.J. Simpson

Witness contradiction / missing document

Petrocelli notes Simpson cannot produce the 'harsh' original draft of the Nicole letter — only the revised, 'more official' version — eliminating any chance to see how much worse the original was

⚔ O.J. Simpson

Timeline / coincidence argument

Petrocelli argues the June 6 hand-delivery of the IRS letter was not coincidental but directly followed the June 3 phone fight — 'Cathy just happened to send it the very next Monday after you and Nicole have this fight on Friday. Total coincidence?'

Objections

8 objections (2 sustained, 6 overruled)

Proceeding 8390 • 555 utterances • Defense witness

Civil Trial

Department 103