📄 Direct examination of Robert Lerner — Monday, November 18, 1996
Address:
C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1996\NOV\18\DIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-ROBERT-L.DOC
TRIAL
▲ Day 17 of 57

Direct examination of Robert Lerner

Witness: Sgt. Robert Lerner
Examiner: John Kelly
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Monday, November 18, 1996 • Utterances: 176
LAPD Sergeant Robert Lerner testified about his response to a domestic violence call at Nicole Brown Simpson's residence on October 25, 1993. He described finding Nicole visibly shaking and scared, OJ Simpson in the guest house in an enraged state pacing and yelling, and broken French doors at the property. He also revealed that a 30-minute tape recording of his conversation with Simpson that night was made by his supervisor Sergeant Lally without his knowledge — a tape he didn't know existed until two days before testifying in the criminal trial.
1 MR. KELLY:

Sergeant Rob Lerner. ROBERT LERNER, was called as a witness on behalf of the Plaintiffs, was duly sworn and testified as follows:

2 THE CLERK:

You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this court shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?

3 SGT. ROBERT LERNER:

I do.

4 THE CLERK:

And if you please, state and spell your name for the record.

5 SGT. ROBERT LERNER:

Yes. It's R-o-b-e-r-t L-e-r-n-e-r.

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. KELLY:

6 Q:

Good afternoon, Sergeant.

7 A:

Good afternoon.

8 Q:

You're obviously currently employed as a sergeant by the Police Department?

9 A:

Yes, sir, that's correct.

10 Q:

Okay. And how long have you been employed by the LAPD?

11 A:

Little over 22 years.

12 Q:

And I want to draw your attention to October 25, 1993. Were you on duty that day?

13 A:

Yes, I was.

14 Q:

And do you recall what your tour of duty was?

15 A:

I was working a patrol assignment in West Los Angeles division on the mid p.m. watch.

16 Q:

And what are the hours of the mid p.m watch?

17 A:

Starts at 6 in the evening, ends at 2:45 in the morning.

18 Q:

Do you recall receiving a radio communication in your car at approximately 10 p.m.?

19 A:

Yes.

20 Q:

And do you recall what the substance of that call was?

21 A:

It was a domestic violence dispute call. I believe the address was on Gretna Green.

22 Q:

Do you recall whether there was any call priority on that call?

23 A:

It was coded as a code 2 high call meaning an urgent call just under a code 3 call which involves red lights and siren.

24 MR. KELLY:

Your Honor, at this time I'd like to play a tape which would be Exhibit 16. Admissibility has already been stipulated to.

25 MR. BAKER:

I'm going to object to that, Your Honor. There's no foundation through this witness.

26 MR. PETROCELLI:

It's stipulated to --

27 MR. BAKER:

There's no foundation.

28 MR. PETROCELLI:

-- as to admissibility and foundation.

29 MR. BAKER:

Through this witness.

30 THE COURT:

Show me the stipulation.

31 MR. KELLY:

Can we play --

32 THE COURT:

I want to see the stipulation, counsel.

33 MR. KELLY:

Okay.

34 (Mr. Petrocelli and Mr. Baker approach bench.)
35 (A bench conference was held which was not reported.)
36 THE COURT:

Witness, would you step outside.

37 SGT. ROBERT LERNER:

Yes, sir.

38 (Witness exits courtroom.)
39 MR. PETROCELLI:

Thank you, Your Honor.

40 (The following proceedings were held in open court in the presence of the jury.)
41 MR. KELLY:

Can we play it, Your Honor?

42 THE COURT:

Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, at this time the parties have stipulated to come into evidence, that's why we're listening to it without anybody testifying as to how it was made, et cetera.

Does everybody understand that?

43 JURORS:

Nod affirmative.

44 THE COURT:

Go ahead.

45 (Tape is played)
46 (Tape concludes playing.)
47 THE COURT:

Bring your witness in.

48 (Witness resumes witness stand)
49 THE CLERK:

You are still under oath. Please state your name.

50 SGT. ROBERT LERNER:

Robert Lerner.

51 Q:

(BY MR. KELLY) Sergeant, going back to approximately 10 p.m. on October 25, 1993, did there come -- at about that time did you arrive at 325 Gretna Green Way?

52 A:

Yes, I did.

53 Q:

And what, if anything, did you observe out front at that residence when you arrived there at that time?

54 A:

We observed a vehicle that was described in the comments reports as a white Bronco.

55 Q:

And where did you see that in relationship to the house itself?

56 A:

The Bronco was parked in the street facing southbound. It was -- it was in front of the house, about four to six feet from the curb.

57 Q:

And did you make any other observations about the car at that time?

58 A:

Yes.

59 Q:

What was that?

60 A:

The headlights were on, the ignition was off.

61 Q:

Okay. Was there anybody in there at this time?

62 A:

Nobody in the vehicle, no.

63 MR. KELLY:

If I could see 2195.

64 (The instrument herein described as photo depicting 325 South Gretna Green with two vehicles parked at curb side was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 2195)
65 Q:

I'm going ask you to look at that residence and see if you recognize it?

66 A:

Yes. That's the house at 325 South Gretna Green.

67 Q:

Okay. And that's where you indicated the white Bronco was parked out front away from the curb?

68 A:

Yes. It was over here in the south part of the house, south side of the residence.

69 Q:

There's a driveway from that house, isn't there?

70 A:

Yes.

71 MR. KELLY:

Okay. You can take it off.

72 Q:

Now, what, if anything, did you observe next after seeing the white Bronco parked out front in the street?

73 A:

We approached the front door of the residence and were met by the tenant.

74 Q:

And who was the tenant?

75 A:

Nicole Brown Simpson.

76 Q:

Okay. And did you step into the house or did she come outside at this time?

77 A:

She came out front.

78 Q:

And could you describe her appearance and demeanor at the time you first saw her?

79 A:

Well, she was pretty upset, she was visibly shaking, and she was -- she had been very frightened earlier.

80 MR. BAKER:

Move to strike.

81 THE COURT:

Stricken.

82 Q:

Did she appeared frighten when you saw her?

83 A:

She told me -- she said she was scared.

84 MR. BAKER:

Move to strike as hearsay.

85 THE COURT:

State of mind, overruled.

86 Q:

(MR. KELLY) I'm sorry, she was --

87 A:

She told me she was scared.

KEY QUOTE
88 MR. KELLY:

Can you flip on Exhibit 21, please.

89 (Exhibit 21 displayed.)
90 (The instrument herein described as a photograph of Nicole Brown Simpson was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 21)
91 Q:

Do you recognize that photo?

92 A:

Yes. That was the person to whom we responded, the call, Nicole Brown Simpson.

93 Q:

And you determined that she was the one who had made those phone calls?

94 A:

Yes.

95 Q:

Okay. And did you also determine whether the individual was -- the subject of those phone calls was still there?

96 A:

Yes. She told us he was still there.

97 Q:

And what, if anything, did you do next after you met Nicole?

98 A:

We tried to establish the location of the suspect.

99 MR. BAKER:

Your Honor, can we take that off the screen? He's identified this.

100 THE COURT:

You may.

101 (Exhibit 21 removed.)
102 A:

We established the current location of the suspect, and if he was armed, if there were any additional suspects, and entered the house.

103 Q:

And what did you do upon entering the house?

104 A:

We walked through the house where she directed us to the suspect's location, where he was in the rear house.

105 Q:

Did you make any observations regarding the interior of the house as you went through it?

106 A:

Yes. Upon exiting from the main house into the backyard area there was a double French doors and I made an observation with regard to those doors.

107 Q:

What was that observation?

108 A:

The door was broken, there was a wood chip that was -- or wood splinter that had been broken off from the door, and the door had been split all the way up to the top of the door.

109 Q:

And after looking at the rear French doors, where, if anywhere, did you go next?

110 A:

We responded to the rear guest house.

111 Q:

Was that separate from the main house?

112 A:

Yes.

113 Q:

And how far was it from the main house back to the guest house?

114 A:

Oh, 40 feet.

115 Q:

And who, if anybody, was in the guest house when you arrived there?

116 A:

Two people were present in the guest house; one was Mr. Simpson -- O.J. Simpson, and the other was Kato Kaelin.

117 Q:

And can you describe Mr. Simpson's demeanor when you observed him at that time?

118 A:

He was -- he was pretty much enraged. He was pacing back and forth talking very loudly, speaking with his hands, motioning and pretty upset.

KEY QUOTE
119 Q:

And what, if any, action did you take at this time?

120 A:

I tried to calm Mr. Simpson. I wanted to have a discussion with him and I wanted to get his side of the story.

121 Q:

Okay. Did you engage him in discussion at this time?

122 A:

Yes, sir.

123 Q:

Did there come a time that anybody else arrived back in the guest house?

124 A:

Yes.

125 Q:

And who was that?

126 A:

That was my immediate supervisor, Sergeant Craig Lally.

127 Q:

Okay. How long had you been out there when Sergeant Lally arrived?

128 A:

Oh, 7 to 10 minutes.

129 Q:

Okay. And was there any further discussion between yourself, Sergeant Lally and Mr. Simpson at this time?

130 A:

Yes.

131 Q:

And do you recall approximately how long the conversations were that you had with him?

132 A:

Well, the first conversation took about 10 minutes or so. We were in conversation with him on and off for about 30 minutes or so.

133 Q:

When you say on and off, were you talking to anyone else in the interim?

134 A:

Yes.

135 Q:

Who was that?

136 A:

Nicole Brown Simpson.

137 Q:

Did there come a time that Mr. Simpson left the premises?

138 A:

Yes.

139 Q:

Okay. Let me ask you, did it ever come to your attention that a tape recording had been made of these conversations between yourself, Sergeant Lally, and Mr. Simpson?

140 A:

Yes. It came to my attention about two days before I appeared in the criminal trial -- before I testified in the criminal trial.

141 Q:

And prior to then -- first of all, who -- did you find out who made that recording?

142 A:

I found out Sergeant Lally made that recording.

143 Q:

When that recording was being made, did you have any idea it was being recorded?

144 A:

No, not a clue.

145 Q:

Okay. If you had -- have you had occasion to listen to that tape in its entirety?

146 A:

Yes, I listened to it.

147 Q:

When was the first time you listened to that tape?

148 A:

Two days before the criminal trial.

149 Q:

And do you recall approximately when that was in terms of --

150 A:

February of '95.

151 Q:

And have you had occasion to listen to it since that time also?

152 A:

Yes.

153 Q:

When was that?

154 A:

Last week, Friday.

155 Q:

And that was with me?

156 A:

Yes.

157 Q:

And would you be able to say that that tape fairly and accurately represents the conversations that you, Sergeant Lally, and Mr. Simpson had that night?

158 A:

Yes, it's accurate.

159 MR. KELLY:

Okay, Your Honor, at this time I'd like to play Exhibit 757.

160 MR. BAKER:

Objection.

161 THE COURT:

How long is that?

162 MR. KELLY:

It's 30 minutes, Your Honor.

163 THE COURT:

Well, you got 15 minutes left. I don't want to listen to half of it.

Objection overruled.

What's the number?

164 MR. KELLY:

757.

165 (The instrument herein described as a tape recording made on October 25, 1993 was marked for identification as Plaintiffs' Exhibit No. 757)
166 THE COURT:

Is there anything else, anything more you want to ask of this witness before we adjourn?

167 Q:

(BY MR. KELLY) What, if anything, did you do after Mr. Simpson left the premises, was there any further action you took yourself?

168 A:

Yes.

169 Q:

What was that?

170 A:

I completed a crime report.

171 Q:

And after you completed that crime report, what, if anything, else did you do?

172 A:

I believe just counsel Nicole Simpson, and we left the residence.

173 Q:

And after that night, when you left that premises, did you ever see Nicole Brown Simpson again?

KEY QUOTE
174 A:

No.

175 MR. KELLY:

I have no further questions, Your Honor.

176 MR. BAKER:

I've got a few, Your Honor.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Robert Lerner
He was -- he was pretty much enraged. He was pacing back and forth talking very loudly, speaking with his hands, motioning and pretty upset.
Lerner's eyewitness description of OJ Simpson's demeanor on the night of a documented domestic violence incident, establishing a pattern of violent behavior.
Robert Lerner
She told me she was scared.
Nicole's statement to the responding officer, admitted over hearsay objection as evidence of state of mind.
Robert Lerner
No, not a clue.
Lerner's answer when asked if he knew the conversation with Simpson was being recorded — establishing the tape's candid, unguarded nature.
John Kelly
And after that night, when you left that premises, did you ever see Nicole Brown Simpson again? [Witness]: No.
A quietly devastating end to the direct examination, underscoring that this was among the last documented interactions between Nicole and law enforcement before her murder.

Evidence (4)

Plaintiffs' Exhibit 16
Audio tape — likely dispatch/radio communication related to the October 25, 1993 call
Played to jury after bench conference; admissibility stipulated by both parties
Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2195
Photograph of 325 South Gretna Green showing two vehicles parked at curbside
Marked and shown to witness for identification of the scene
Plaintiffs' Exhibit 21
Photograph of Nicole Brown Simpson
Shown to witness for identification; removed after Baker's request
Plaintiffs' Exhibit 757
30-minute tape recording of conversations between Lerner, Sergeant Lally, and OJ Simpson on October 25, 1993
Marked; playing deferred to next session due to time constraints

Notable Exchanges (3)

John KellyRobert BakerHiroshi Fujisaki
Dispute over whether Exhibit 16 could be played through Lerner without his laying foundation; Baker argued there was no foundation 'through this witness' despite stipulation. Led to an unreported bench conference after which the tape was played.
strategic
Hiroshi FujisakiJohn Kelly
Judge noted only 15 minutes remained in the session when Kelly sought to play the 30-minute Exhibit 757, saying 'I don't want to listen to half of it' — overruled the objection but effectively deferred the tape.
pragmatic
John KellyRobert Lerner
Lerner revealed he had no idea Sergeant Lally was secretly recording the conversation with Simpson that night, and didn't learn of its existence until two days before his criminal trial testimony in February 1995.
revealing

Light Moments (1)

Hiroshi Fujisaki
Judge Fujisaki, upon learning the tape Kelly wanted to play was 30 minutes long with only 15 minutes left in session: 'I don't want to listen to half of it.'

Witness Demeanor

Cooperative and straightforward; no stage directions indicating distress or hesitation
Responded directly to questions without elaboration beyond what was asked

Objections

4 objections (1 sustained, 2 overruled)
Proceeding 8306 • 176 utterances • Plaintiff witness
Civil Trial
Department 103
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📂 NOV 18, 1996 📄 Direct examination of Robert L
NOV 18, 1996 KRT DvH TD