Redirect examination of Philip Vannatter

📄 Redirect examination of Philip Vannatter — Friday, November 1, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1996\NOV\1\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-PHILIP.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 7 of 57

◀ Direct examination of Philip Vannatter Jury instructions ▶

Witness: Det. Philip Vannatter
Examiner: John Kelly
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Friday, November 1, 1996 • Utterances: 267

Robert Baker cross-examined Detective Philip Vannatter about his handling of OJ Simpson's blood reference vial on June 13, 1994 — specifically the unwitnessed hour-and-a-half window when the vial sat on Vannatter's desk at Parker Center before being driven to Rockingham. The examination was repeatedly curtailed by Judge Fujisaki on scope grounds, since Vannatter had been called by plaintiffs solely about the blood vial. Baker also elicited that Vannatter considered the Goldmans friends, had met multiple times with plaintiffs' attorneys, and was actively negotiating a book deal.

# 1 Q:

Good afternoon.

# 2 A:

Good afternoon, sir.

# 3 Q:

Now, how many meetings did you have with the Plaintiffs' attorneys before you came here to testify as an independent witness?

# 4 A:

How many meetings total, sir.

# 5 Q:

Yeah. Since Mr. Simpson was acquitted on October 3, 1994, how many meetings have you had with somebody from Mitchell, Silverberg and Knupp office or Mr. Kelly's office or Mr. Brewer's office? How many meetings?

# 6 A:

I had -- let me think. I had one meeting with Mr. Medvene before I retired, the week before I retired. I had one meeting with Mr. Kelly, approximately a month ago. And I met with Mr. Kelly last night for a brief time and this morning coming to court.

# 7 Q:

And you consider the Goldmans your friends, do you not?

# 8 A:

I consider -- I would hope that they're my friends, yes.

# 9 Q:

And you've socialized with them out in the hall. You consider them to be -- you consider yourself to be friendly to them, do you not?

# 10 A:

Yes.

# 11 Q:

And you have spent -- well, strike that.

Did you spend over 10, 12 hours getting ready to testify in on this case?

# 12 A:

No.

# 13 Q:

And did Mr. Kelly, in your meetings last night, tell you what they wanted to do was to limit it just to the blood vials? That you had control of this case?

# 14 MR. KELLY:

Objection, Your Honor. Relevance.

# 15 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 16 MR. BAKER:

On what ground?

# 17 MR. KELLY:

Relevance. My discussions with him, what I said to Mr. Vannatter. Hearsay, Judge.

# 18 THE COURT:

That I'll sustain.

# 19 MR. BAKER:

Did you understand from your meetings with Mr. Kelly, that you were to limit your testimony to just the blood vials. That you had control of all of the victims and Mr. Simpson --

# 20 MR. KELLY:

Same objection, Your Honor.

# 21 THE COURT:

Sustained. That's all that was examined and that goes beyond it.

# 22 MR. BAKER:

I will get into that in a minute, I'm sure.

# 23 MR. KELLY:

Objection. I'd ask Mr. Baker's gratuitous comments be stricken from the record.

# 24 THE COURT:

Let's get on with it, please.

# 25 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) At 2:30 in the afternoon -- well, strike that.

You were the co-lead detective in this case; is that right?

# 26 A:

Yes, sir, I was.

# 27 Q:

You were the co-lead detective from 4:25 in the morning on June 13, 1994, until the case was closed from RHD by the arrest of Mr. Simpson 6/17/1994, true?

# 28 A:

Yes. Yes, that's true.

# 29 Q:

And at 2:30 in the afternoon on June 13, 1994, you were at the jail dispensary, after the you had been interrogating Mr. Simpson for at least 30 minutes -- objection. Beyond the scope, Your Honor.

# 30 THE COURT:

Sustained. I'm not going to get into anything beyond what this witness was examined on direct.

# 31 MR. BAKER:

I would ask the Court to look at cases that I gave to the Court yesterday.

# 32 THE COURT:

This witness is a witness called for a limited purpose by plaintiff. If you want to examine him, you can call him on your portion of the case as it is your own witness.

# 33 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) At 2:30, the only reason that you could be at the jail dispensary taking Mr. Simpson's blood is because he had offered to allow you to take his blood in the half hour previous; isn't that true?

# 34 MR. KELLY:

Objection. Same objection. Goes beyond the scope as to what was -- what was prior to his direct testimony. Your Honor, it's also hearsay too.

# 35 THE COURT:

It's a party. (Referring to counsel table.).

Overruled.

# 36 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

Yes. He volunteered to give a sampling, yes.

# 37 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) He had, you had told Mr. Simpson that you had some problems because you had blood at his house. And he said give me a blood test, didn't he?

# 38 MR. KELLY:

Objection, Your Honor.

# 39 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 40 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Well, you certainly couldn't have taken Mr. Simpson's blood without his permission, could you.

# 41 MR. KELLY:

Objection. Argumentative, Your Honor.

# 42 THE COURT:

Irrelevant. He's --

# 43 MR. KELLY:

Irrelevant also.

# 44 (Laughter)

# 45 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) So Mr. Simpson gave you permission to take his blood on June 13, after you had been with him for 30 minutes, correct?

# 46 MR. KELLY:

Objection to the second half of that question, Your Honor. Compound in the second half. It is beyond the scope.

# 47 THE COURT:

Overruled. Let's get on with it.

# 48 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

Yes.

# 49 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) And when you went down to take Mr. Simpson's blood, did he have any attorneys with him?

# 50 A:

No.

# 51 Q:

And so it was just you, Mr. Lange, and Nurse Peratis, correct?

# 52 A:

And Mr. Simpson, yes.

# 53 Q:

Well, if you were going to take his blood, he ought to be there, don't you think?

So at that time you had a photographer come in, did you not, to the area where the nurse was taking Mr. Simpson's blood?

# 54 MR. KELLY:

Objection. Beyond the scope, Your Honor.

# 55 THE COURT:

Photographer came in. Overruled.

# 56 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

No. I didn't have a photographer come in there.

# 57 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Well, a photographer came in and took a picture of Mr. Simpson's hand after the blood was drawn from him; isn't that true?

# 58 MR. KELLY:

Objection. Beyond the scope, Your Honor.

# 59 THE COURT:

That's sustained.if he took the picture of him drawing blood.

# 60 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) During the time that Mr. Peratis was drawing blood and you were in this jail dispensary, Mr. Peratis also dressed Mr. Simpson's finger, didn't he?

# 61 MR. KELLY:

Objection. Beyond the scope, Your Honor.

# 62 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 63 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

He cleaned his finger, yes and put a Band-Aid on it.

# 64 Q:

And you looked at Mr. Simpson's fingers at that time and his hands at that time, didn't you?

# 65 A:

I looked at his hand, yes.

# 66 Q:

And he had one cut that was on the knuckle of -- or the middle joint of his large finger, long finger on his left hand; isn't that, true?

# 67 MR. KELLY:

Objection. Beyond the scope.

# 68 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 69 MR. BAKER:

It's at the time he's there looking at it.

# 70 THE COURT:

I'm just interested in taking of the blood. That's all that was examined of this witness. You want to use him for some other witness, call him as your witness at your time.

# 71 MR. BAKER:

Your Honor, I respectfully disagree with the Court's ruling.

# 72 THE COURT:

I know you do. You've done that several times. And I'm just doing my job.

# 73 MR. BAKER:

I'm trying to do mine.

# 74 THE COURT:

I know.

# 75 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Now, where do you live, sir?

# 76 MR. KELLY:

Objection. Irrelevant.

# 77 THE COURT:

Did you say this has some relevance to the taking of the blood?

# 78 MR. BAKER:

It has some relevance to him coming back so I can get him here pursuant to your order.

# 79 MR. KELLY:

Objection. If Mr. Baker has any application, I ask that it be made at side bar.

# 80 THE COURT:

Mr. Baker, if you want to make a request in that regard, I'll make it.

# 81 MR. BAKER:

Okay. Let's make it.

# 82 THE COURT:

I'll have him in court.

# 83 MR. BAKER:

Thank you.

# 84 THE COURT:

So at the conclusion of today, please remind me.

# 85 MR. KELLY:

Your Honor, before you do, I would like to be heard on that.

# 86 THE COURT:

You may.

# 87 MR. KELLY:

Thank you.

# 88 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Now, so at 2:30, this blood is drawn and you say it's taken out with a syringe by the nurse and he injects the blood into a purple-top tube, correct?

# 89 A:

Yes.

# 90 Q:

And that purple-top tube isn't sealed; is it?

# 91 A:

Yes, it is.

# 92 Q:

You can take the top off that tube with impunity, can you not, sir?

# 93 A:

No, sir. I couldn't.

# 94 Q:

You couldn't.

# 95 A:

No.

# 96 Q:

Well. Was the -- Strike that.

The top on that tube can just be removed. It can be taken off with your hands, can it not?

# 97 A:

No, sir. I believe it's a vacuum tube.

# 98 Q:

Cannot be taken off with your hands?

# 99 A:

Well, I'm sure it could be if you wanted to pull it off. I believe it's a vacuum sealed tube.

# 100 Q:

And you took that tube, purple top tube and you put it in an envelope after you got to your desk. Is that what your telling us, sir?

# 101 A:

Yes, sir, that's correct.

# 102 Q:

And the gray envelope that you say it was put in was not given to you by Nurse Peratis?

# 103 A:

No, sir, it was not.

# 104 Q:

And it does not have his signature on that envelope, right?

# 105 A:

Well, it could. I don't know. I recall putting in an analyzed evidence envelope. He may have given me one. I don't recall that.

# 106 Q:

I thought you just testified -- correct me if I'm wrong. I thought you just testified within the last 20 minutes that you took the tube, you went up to your desk you got an 8 by 10 gray envelope from your desk, an analyzed evidence envelope, and you put it in the analyzed evidence envelope that you got from your desk; is that correct or incorrect?

# 107 A:

That's the way I recall it occurring, yes, sir.

# 108 Q:

And you never went back with that envelope to Nurse Peratis at all, did you, sir?

# 109 A:

I don't recall ever doing that, no.

# 110 Q:

And it would be highly unlikely that Nurse Peratis came up to your desk between the time that you were there, between 2:30 and 4 o'clock and put his signature on it; would you agree with that?

# 111 A:

Yes, I would agree with that.

# 112 Q:

If his signature were on it, you wouldn't know how it got there, but you took the envelope from your desk and put the tube in it, right?

# 113 A:

Sir, I said that's the way I recall it occurring. He could have given me one when I was down there.

# 114 Q:

Mr. Vannatter, the issue of the vial of blood in this case has been an issue over --

# 115 MR. KELLY:

Objection.

# 116 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 117 MR. BAKER:

Have you talked about this vial of blood on Larry King Live on Geraldo Rivera, on Charles Groden; have you not?

# 118 MR. KELLY:

Objection. Relevance.

# 119 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 120 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

Yes, I have.

# 121 Q:

And you have gone through every minute detail, telling everyone who would listen about the minute details of how you had this blood; isn't that true, sir?

# 122 A:

I have tried to.

# 123 MR. KELLY:

Objection. Argumentative, Your Honor, "everyone who would listen."

# 124 THE COURT:

Overruled. It's a manner of speech, I believe.

# 125 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

I have tried to tell the truth as I recall the truth and how I handled the vial of blood, sir, yes.

# 126 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) You have gone over in your mind a thousand times, the vial of blood story, have you not, relative to when you put it in an envelope; whether it was sealed, unsealed, who signed it, all of that; true?

# 127 A:

I am trying to recall it as best as I can recall it. You're talking about an incident that occurred over two years ago that was insignificant to me at the time.

KEY QUOTE

# 128 Q:

And it has become exceedingly significant to you or you wouldn't be on national television talking about it. You agree to that?

# 129 A:

That doesn't make my memory any better, Mr. Baker.

KEY QUOTE

# 130 Q:

So your memory isn't any better now 40 minutes or 20 minutes from the time you testified earlier that you got the envelope up from your desk, true?

# 131 A:

That's how I recall it happening, yes.

# 132 Q:

All right. Now, when you got this envelope, from your desk and you put the vial into it, and would you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury how far this Piper Tech is where you could book evidence from your desk --

# 133 MR. KELLY:

Objection. Irrelevant, Your Honor.

# 134 THE COURT:

Overruled?

# 135 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

It's approximately a mile from Parker Center.

# 136 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Can you -- would you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury how far Mr. Simpson's house is from where you got the envelope and put the vial into the envelope in your desk?

# 137 A:

Approximately 15 miles.

# 138 Q:

And you could have -- Strike that.

In terms of -- from the time you got this vial at 2:30 until 4 o'clock, the vial, did you call Rockingham to see if Mr. Fung was there?

# 139 A:

I believe I spoke with Ron Phillips.

# 140 Q:

Did you call Rockingham to see if Mr. Fung was there; was the question, sir.

# 141 THE COURT:

Did you misstate it, or did I hear you wrong.

# 142 MR. BAKER:

I could be wrong again, but I --

# 143 THE COURT:

I thought I heard something strange.

# 144 MR. BAKER:

Okay.

# 145 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) As I understand it, you left Parker Center at 4 o'clock on the afternoon of the 13th knowing that you were going to hit the evening traffic to go to Rockingham, correct?

# 146 A:

Yes.

# 147 Q:

And you went there, sir -- and you went there to give this blood vial to Mr. Fung, right?

# 148 A:

That's correct.

# 149 Q:

And you didn't know if Mr. Fung was there, did you?

# 150 A:

Well, I knew the search warrant hadn't been completed and I made an assumption that he was there.

# 151 Q:

You didn't call out to the Rockingham place to find if Mr. Fung was there, did you?

# 152 A:

I did not no.

# 153 Q:

You didn't use any police communication system to find out if he was there, did you?

# 154 A:

I did not.

# 155 Q:

Did you see the tape where Mr. Fung and Andrea Mazzola were leaving Rockingham and then said let's take one last look and then you drove up?

# 156 MR. KELLY:

Objection. Irrelevant.

# 157 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 158 Q:

Did you see that tape, that videotape?

# 159 A:

I've seen a number of tapes. I'm sure that I did, yes.

# 160 Q:

And if Mr. Fung and Ms. Mazzola hadn't decided to take one last look, they would have been gone. Did you see that tape?

# 161 A:

He was there when I got there, Mr. Baker.

# 162 Q:

Did you see the tape, sir?

# 163 A:

I saw Fung there when I was there. I don't know about him being gone.

# 164 Q:

So you don't even know whether you left at 4 o'clock to -- and that was purportedly to deliver this vial of blood, was it not?

# 165 A:

It was to go check on the completion of the search warrant and to deliver the vial of blood. That's correct.

# 166 Q:

Now, the vial of blood was the major reason you left Parker Center and you could have gone to S.I.D. or Piper Tech and where S.I.D. booked it, right?

# 167 A:

No, I couldn't have booked it.

# 168 Q:

Okay. Now, in terms of your search warrant, let's talk a little bit about the search warrant.

# 169 MR. KELLY:

Objection.

# 170 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 171 MR. BAKER:

I like to be heard on that, Your'Honor.

# 172 THE COURT:

No. I've already made my ruling.

# 173 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Now, had you in the past, Mr. Vannatter, just tell us how many times you had taken a reference vial of blood -- well, strike that. Mr. Simpson's blood was a reference vial, wasn't it?

# 174 A:

Yes.

# 175 Q:

And a reference vial of blood is blood that can be used, in this case of Mr. Simpson, who was then a suspect, to determine whether or not his blood may be consistent with other blood found at the crime scene, correct?

# 176 A:

As well as to exonerate him, yes.

# 177 Q:

And one of you would agree that one of the fundamentals of being a good crime scene procedure is not to take a reference vial of blood to a crime scene. You would agree with that?

# 178 MR. KELLY:

Objection, Your Honor. Relevance, beyond the scope, speculative, argumentative.

# 179 THE COURT:

The argument is overruled -- I mean sustained.

# 180 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Well, it would be inappropriate to take a reference vial of blood to a crime scene. Because if it spills, you have destroyed A; crime scene, and B; you have destroyed any ability to exonerate the suspect of the reference vial, true?

# 181 MR. KELLY:

Argumentative. Speculative and it's a compound question.

# 182 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 183 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Did the reference vial of blood that you took to Rockingham in your police vehicle have EDTA in it?

# 184 MR. KELLY:

Objection. Beyond the scope.

# 185 THE COURT:

If you know, overruled.

# 186 MR. KELLY:

Foundation, your Honor, I'm sorry.

# 187 THE COURT:

Sustained on foundation.

# 188 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) You talked about a purple top tube. You remember that?

# 189 A:

Yes, sir.

# 190 Q:

Purple top is a tube that contains EDTA; is it not?

# 191 A:

Yes.

# 192 MR. KELLY:

Objection as to form. I'd ask that the specific tube, if we're referring to --

# 193 THE COURT:

The witness answered yes.

# 194 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) And so this particular reference vial of blood of Mr. Simpson had EDTA in it, right?

# 195 A:

I believe it did, yes.

# 196 Q:

An now, you were concerned and you wanted to get it out of there because you felt that this was crucial piece of evidence.

# 197 MR. KELLY:

Objection.

# 198 Q:

That is Mr. Simpson's reference vial of blood.

# 199 MR. KELLY:

Objection. Argumentative and compound.

# 200 THE COURT:

Overruled as to this witness state of mind in taking the blood out there.

# 201 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

I believed it was a piece of evidence that could ultimately exonerate or include him in the crime, yes.

# 202 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) You thought it was so important that you wanted to get it to Rockingham and to Dennis Fung; and that's the reason that you left the Parker Center at approximately 4 o'clock on the afternoon of the 13th, right?

# 203 A:

I wanted to get it to the criminalist to get it booked, yes.

# 204 Q:

And you knew, of course, that -- well, strike that. How many times had you ever taken a reference vial ever blood to a processing crime scene such as 360 north Bundy?

# 205 MR. KELLY:

Objection. Irrelevant.

# 206 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 207 MR. BAKER:

That's irrelevant.

# 208 THE COURT:

We're talking about this case.

# 209 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) How many times have you ever picked up a blood vial from the victims at the coroner's office.

# 210 MR. KELLY:

Objection. Same objection.

# 211 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 212 DET. PHILIP VANNATTER:

Probably a number of times.

# 213 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) You've actually gone to the coroner's office like you did -- strike that. Did you pick the blood up on the 15th?

# 214 A:

Yes, that's correct.

# 215 Q:

And the autopsy was on the 14th; was it not?

# 216 A:

That's correct.

# 217 Q:

So you made a special trip to the coroner's office to get the blood?

# 218 A:

That was not the entire purpose of the trip.

# 219 Q:

Can you answer the question?

# 220 A:

I did. That was not the entire purpose of the trip.

# 221 Q:

You picked up the blood, which normally the coroner transfers to S.I.D. without it ever touching a detective's hands. You would agree with that?

# 222 A:

Not always, no, I wouldn't.

# 223 Q:

Was there any blood dripping off the vial of the blood vial that was given to you at approximately 2:30?

# 224 A:

I was given the vial in a sealed envelope. I don't know if there was blood dripping off it or not.

# 225 Q:

Did you ever look in that envelope to see if blood was dripping off that vial?

# 226 MR. KELLY:

Objection. I ask that the report be clarified to the -- he was referring to 2:30 on the 13th in terms of the side envelope.

# 227 MR. PETROCELLI:

Switched files, Your Honor. We're in the middle of the coroner's vials Your Honor and then he framed a question that went back to the 13th.

# 228 THE COURT:

Sustained. Rephrase the question.

# 229 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) The 13 --

# 230 A:

Okay.

# 231 Q:

-- Did you look in the envelopes or -- strike that. Was that vial -- was there any blood dripping off that vial?

# 232 A:

No.

# 233 Q:

Did you check that?

# 234 A:

Yeah. I placed the vial into an envelope. There was no blood on the vial.

# 235 Q:

And then there would be no transfer of that blood to the envelope, right?

# 236 A:

I didn't see any transfer of any blood, no.

# 237 Q:

Fair enough. Now, in terms of your handling of that blood, that blood was in your custody from 2:30 to after 5:00 in the afternoon on the 13th, right, nobody else?

# 238 A:

That's correct.

# 239 Q:

And you went upstairs from 2:30 and did you have a cup of coffee? What did you do?

# 240 A:

I had something to eat.

# 241 Q:

You had a cup of coffee, did you?

# 242 A:

I had something to eat. I had a cup of coffee, yes.

# 243 Q:

And you chatted with some people with the blood vial on your desk. Where was it?

# 244 A:

It was in the envelope on top of my desk.

# 245 Q:

And I take it -- and where were you? Were you eating at your desk the whole time?

# 246 A:

I was in Robbery/homicide division. I kept control of the envelope and I sat down at my desk and I ate a sandwich, yes.

# 247 Q:

Did you take the envelope with you every where you went from 2:30 to 4 o'clock when you left Parker Center?

# 248 A:

No, I don't think I took it every place I went. I think it was on my desk for a period of time.

# 249 Q:

How long were you away from that envelope?

# 250 A:

I don't know I couldn't answer that. That would -- that would be all guess work. I have no idea.

# 251 Q:

But -- well, if this was such an important piece of evidence and you wanted to get out to Mr. Fung, booking evidence at Rockingham, at a processing crime scene, why did you take an hour and a half before you ever started?

# 252 A:

Well, I hadn't eaten for 24 hours. I had gotten up at 3 o'clock in the morning. I was tired. I needed to relax a little bit. I needed to sit down. I'm a 55-year-old man. I can't run constantly so I sat down. I ate a sandwich and then I went out to Rockingham.

KEY QUOTE

# 253 Q:

So that took you an hour and a half, right?

# 254 A:

Well, that took a portion of that time, yes. I talked to my partner a little bit.

# 255 Q:

And you didn't do any detective work in that hour and a half. You just took your lunch --

# 256 A:

Well, detective work, that's --

# 257 Q:

Can you let me finish my question.

You just talked to your partner and got yourself some nourishment, right?

# 258 A:

Well, you asked the question. You didn't do any detective work. That's detective work sometimes is talking with your partner, comparing your notes, figuring out where to go next, what to do.

# 259 Q:

Now, presently, sir, do you have a book deal?

# 260 A:

Do I have a signed book deal?

No, I don't.

# 261 Q:

Well, I take it then, from the way you answered the question, you're negotiating for a book deal?

# 262 A:

Yes.

# 263 Q:

And you have an agent?

# 264 A:

Yes.

# 265 Q:

And you plan to make some money off of writing a book and giving your story about this case, right?

# 266 A:

I hope I do, yes.

# 267 MR. BAKER:

I don't have anything further at this time and I want to be able to order him back to court.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Philip Vannatter

I am trying to recall it as best as I can recall it. You're talking about an incident that occurred over two years ago that was insignificant to me at the time.

Vannatter undermines his own credibility by calling the chain of custody of a murder suspect's blood reference vial 'insignificant' — directly contradicting his many public media appearances about it.

Philip Vannatter

That doesn't make my memory any better, Mr. Baker.

Sharp retort after Baker pointed out Vannatter had been on national television discussing the vial in detail — Vannatter concedes his memory of the envelope handling has not improved despite the rehearsal.

Philip Vannatter

Well, I hadn't eaten for 24 hours. I had gotten up at 3 o'clock in the morning. I was tired. I needed to relax a little bit. I needed to sit down. I'm a 55-year-old man. I can't run constantly so I sat down. I ate a sandwich and then I went out to Rockingham.

Vannatter's explanation for the 90-minute gap in chain of custody — humanizing but damaging, as Baker uses it to establish the vial was left unattended on his desk.

Philip Vannatter

Do I have a signed book deal? No, I don't.

Baker's parsing of the answer immediately revealed Vannatter was actively negotiating a book deal, implying financial motive to maintain the prosecution narrative.

Evidence (3)

Informal

Purple-top vacuum tube containing Simpson's blood reference sample drawn by Nurse Peratis at 2:30 p.m. on June 13, 1994

Chain of custody challenged — Baker focused on the unsealed/removable top, the 90-minute gap on Vannatter's desk, and the lack of Peratis's signature on the envelope

Informal

8-by-10 gray analyzed evidence envelope Vannatter claims he retrieved from his own desk to hold the vial

Challenged — Vannatter could not confirm whether Peratis signed it or whether Peratis gave it to him

Informal

Videotape showing Dennis Fung and Andrea Mazzola leaving Rockingham, then deciding to take 'one last look' before Vannatter arrived

Discussed — Baker used it to suggest Fung nearly left before Vannatter arrived with the vial; Vannatter deflected

Notable Exchanges (3)

Robert Baker•Hiroshi Fujisaki

Recurring battle over scope: Baker repeatedly tried to expand examination into the interrogation of Simpson, his finger cut, the search warrant, and general evidence handling practices. Fujisaki sustained most of these, reminding Baker he could call Vannatter as his own witness. Baker stated 'I respectfully disagree with the Court's ruling' and Fujisaki replied 'I know you do. You've done that several times. And I'm just doing my job.'

adversarial but controlled

Robert Baker•Philip Vannatter

Baker methodically walked through the 90-minute gap — Vannatter eating, chatting with his partner, the vial sitting on his desk — to imply opportunity for tampering. Vannatter's defense ('I'm a 55-year-old man') was direct but inadvertently highlighted the lack of chain-of-custody rigor.

strategic

Robert Baker•Philip Vannatter

Baker closed by revealing Vannatter's book deal negotiations. Vannatter's careful parsing ('Do I have a signed book deal? No') backfired when Baker immediately followed up, and Vannatter confirmed he had an agent and hoped to profit from his account of the case.

revealing

Light Moments (2)

Robert Baker

Baker asked rhetorically 'You certainly couldn't have taken Mr. Simpson's blood without his permission, could you' — the court laughed. Fujisaki ruled it irrelevant.

Robert Baker

Baker's aside after a question: 'Well, if you were going to take his blood, he ought to be there, don't you think?' — delivered as a rhetorical wisecrack before moving on.

Credibility Attacks (4)

⚔ Philip Vannatter

bias / prior relationship

Baker established Vannatter considered the Goldman family his friends and had met with plaintiffs' attorneys multiple times, including the evening before and morning of his testimony.

⚔ Philip Vannatter

financial interest

Baker elicited that Vannatter was negotiating a book deal through an agent and hoped to profit from his account of the case, suggesting motive to maintain a consistent story.

⚔ Philip Vannatter

prior inconsistent statement / memory impeachment

Baker contrasted Vannatter's extensive public media appearances about the blood vial (Larry King Live, Geraldo Rivera, Charles Grodin) with his inability to recall whether Peratis signed the envelope or gave it to him — Vannatter himself called the incident 'insignificant to me at the time.'

⚔ Philip Vannatter

chain of custody failure

Baker forced Vannatter to admit: the purple-top tube cap could physically be removed by hand; the vial sat on his unattended desk for an unknown period; he did not take the envelope everywhere he went; he could not account for how long he was away from it; he drove it 15 miles to a processing crime scene rather than booking it at the nearby SID/Piper Tech facility.

Witness Demeanor

(Laughter) — courtroom reaction to Baker's question about needing Simpson's permission

Objections

27 objections (14 sustained, 10 overruled)

Proceeding 8113 • 267 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Civil Trial

Department 103