Redirect examination of Leroy Taft (2 of 2)

📄 Redirect examination of Leroy Taft (2 of 2) — Friday, December 6, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1996\DEC\6\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-LEROY-.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 27 of 57

◀ Redirect examination of Leroy Taft Recross-examination of Leroy Taft ▶

Witness: Leroy Taft
Examiner: Daniel Petrocelli
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Friday, December 6, 1996 • Utterances: 158

Petrocelli used Taft's own deposition to corner him on how many cuts he saw on Simpson's left hand at Parker Center on June 13. Taft had testified on direct that he saw only one cut, but his deposition recorded him acknowledging clear consciousness of cuts on both the fourth finger and middle finger knuckle — and possibly a third. The examination ended with Petrocelli pointedly asking whether Taft had lied under oath.

# 1 Q:

Let's go back to the testimony at 118, that you apparently had memorized before coming to the courtroom.

By the way, how much time did you spend with the lawyers talking about the cut issue?

# 2 MR. BAKER:

I object, Your Honor. Attorney-client privilege.

# 3 MR. PETROCELLI:

He opened the door by getting back into this, Your Honor, showed him the deposition and everything.

# 4 MR. BAKER:

That doesn't waive the privilege.

# 5 MR. PETROCELLI:

Asked him how much time --

# 6 MR. BAKER:

Doesn't waive the privilege.

# 7 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 8 MR. PETROCELLI:

He is not his lawyer.

# 9 THE COURT:

Claimed he is.

# 10 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Is Mr. Baker your attorney?

# 11 THE COURT:

No. He claimed he is Mr. Simpson's attorney.

# 12 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) I'm asking you about conversations with the defense team here.

# 13 MR. PETROCELLI:

I want to know about those conversations, Your Honor. I'm not asking about conversations between --

# 14 THE COURT:

I'll sustain the objection.

# 15 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) How long of a time did you spend, without telling me what was said?

# 16 MR. BAKER:

I want to approach if we're going to continue this.

# 17 MR. PETROCELLI:

That doesn't call for any communication --

# 18 MR. BAKER:

I want to approach.

# 19 THE COURT:

Excuse me. I'm sustaining the objections.

# 20 MR. PETROCELLI:

118, page 118.

# 21 MR. FOSTER:

Line --

# 22 MR. PETROCELLI:

What was it, line 6?

MR. P. BAKER: 16.

# 23 MR. BAKER:

Starts at 16.

# 24 (Transcript displayed on Elmo Screen.)

# 25 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Now, was this the testimony that you were relying on to support your statement that you talked about a single cut.

# 26 MR. BAKER:

Argumentative and form.

# 27 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 28 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Is that the testimony that you were relying on when you told the jury how you had testified that there was only one cut on Mr. Simpson's finger that you observed on June 13? Is that it?

# 29 A:

That and a little further down, Mr. Petrocelli.

# 30 Q:

Okay.

You want to show us?

# 31 A:

Yes. I'd like you to see at the bottom of page 18, and the first of 19 -- 119.

# 32 Q:

That's 119.

I want you to point to all the words, sir, that you're relying on.

# 33 A:

I don't -- I don't see it there.

In one place, around page 118, 119, I say I'm not even sure that I saw the first cut. And -- and it's only on my recollection that I believe I saw one cut.

# 34 MR. PETROCELLI:

You want to help me, Mr. Baker? You know where that is in the deposition.

# 35 MR. BAKER:

You want to cross-examine me?

# 36 MR. PETROCELLI:

No. You have a depo cite we can show him?

# 37 MR. BAKER:

Look, Mr. Petrocelli, so interested, at page 119.

# 38 THE COURT:

Excuse me. I don't think that's appropriate now.

If you want to show --

# 39 MR. BAKER:

If --

# 40 THE COURT:

Excuse me. Can I run the trial?

KEY QUOTE

# 41 MR. PETROCELLI:

Trying to find the spot.

# 42 THE COURT:

If you want to show him the transcript, show him the transcript, Mr. Petrocelli. Don't look to Mr. Baker to do that.

# 43 MR. PETROCELLI:

Here.

# 44 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) I'll show you the transcript. I want to make sure we have everything that you've relied on, sir.

# 45 (Witness reviews transcript.)

# 46 A:

It's at the bottom of 119, and I guess the top of page 20, line 25 at the bottom of 19 -- 119 and line 1 of -- top of 20.

# 47 Q:

So -- well, let me read this.

# 48 Q:

Starting at page 118, line 16:

When Mr. Simpson entered your car, did he have a cut anywhere on his body?

# 49 A:

I think he had. I don't know which hand it was, but he had -- it's one of his -- it was either his middle -- it was his middle finger, (indicating). I think on one hand he had a cut.

Was he bleeding in the car?

No.

Did he have a bandage on?

I believe so.

Did you see any blood in the car?

In my car?

Yes.

No.

Did you see any blood oozing through the bandage on his finger?

I don't know.

How did you know he had a cut on his finger?

I learned later, because O.J. and I went down with Howard Weitzman to Parker Center, and I know that he -- they wanted to take blood from him at that time, and they may have asked questions about that finger, because he may have had it redressed there by the nurse.

Prior to that time, though, when you were picking him up at the airport --

# 50 MR. BAKER:

Wait a minute. If you're going to read it, read it correctly. Read where the word "indicating" is and where I indicate that he was indicating the middle finger of his --

# 51 MR. PETROCELLI:

Reading question -- and I'll be happy to read your comment prior to that time, Mr. Baker.

# 52 (Reading:)

# 53 MR. BAKER:

Indicating the middle finger of the left hand.

# 54 MR. BAKER:

He indicated in his answer you know it -- it's right here on line 16.

# 55 MR. PETROCELLI:

I'm reading what he said.

# 56 MR. BAKER:

Read the --

# 57 THE COURT:

Let him read the transcript.

# 58 MR. BAKER:

He has to read it accurately.

# 59 THE COURT:

Mr. Baker, the transcript is the transcript. Now read it.

# 60 (Reading:)

# 61 Q:

Now, when you were picking him up at the airport and going to Rockingham, did you know that he had a cut on his finger?

# 62 A:

I consciously, at this point, don't know that I knew.

# 63 Q:

Did he change his bandage in the car?

No.

What kind of bandage was it on his finger?

Just a band-aid.

Just a regular band-aid?

As far as I know, it was just a regular band-aid.

What was he wearing?

You meaning his clothes?

Yeah.

It was a white golf shirt.

# 64 MR. BAKER:

I object, Your Honor. This is beyond the scope.

# 65 MR. PETROCELLI:

I'm going to page 120, where he asked --

# 66 THE COURT:

Overruled. Go ahead.

# 67 MR. BAKER:

He isn't going to 120.

# 68 MR. PETROCELLI:

Where would you like me to stop, sir?

# 69 LEROY TAFT:

I think --

# 70 (Witness reviews transcript.)

# 71 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) I was --

# 72 A:

I was -- I was mentioning this sentence here, that I consciously didn't remember.

# 73 Q:

Have we gone past the point?

# 74 A:

Yes.

# 75 Q:

Can I stop reading now?

# 76 A:

Yes, you may.

# 77 Q:

Okay.

Now, when you were questioned by me about that subject matter, we were referring to the time when Mr. Simpson got in your car from the airport, and you drove him to Rockingham, correct?

# 78 A:

Correct.

# 79 Q:

And at that time, as you testified, he had a band-aid on, correct?

# 80 A:

Correct.

# 81 Q:

And you --

# 82 A:

My best recollection.

# 83 Q:

Excuse me?

# 84 A:

Well --

# 85 Q:

He had a band-aid on, correct?

# 86 A:

To my best recollection.

# 87 Q:

And you testified under oath at your deposition, that you did not consciously know at that time, whether he had any cuts, correct?

# 88 A:

Other than the one I said I thought I saw under the band-aid, or that I was aware -- he didn't wear a band-aid unless he had a cut.

# 89 Q:

Sir, you never said in your deposition that you saw a cut under his band-aid, did you?

# 90 A:

No.

# 91 Q:

And, in fact, you were testifying under oath, that when you did learn about the cut, was later on, when you were at Parker Center with Howard Weitzman and Mr. Simpson and you, correct?

# 92 A:

That's correct.

# 93 Q:

And isn't it -- isn't it the truth, sir, that the first time that you really learned about a cut or cuts on Mr. Simpson's finger, and could see cuts or a cut, was at the room in Parker Center with Mr. Weitzman, yourself, and Mr. Simpson, correct?

# 94 A:

Correct.

# 95 Q:

And what you were saying under oath in your deposition was that, in the car ride, because Mr. Simpson had a band-aid, you did not consciously see any cuts at that time, correct?

# 96 A:

Correct.

# 97 Q:

So the only place where you actually observed a cut or cuts on Mr. Simpson's hand is at Parker Center, 1 clock p.m., on June 13, correct?

# 98 A:

Correct.

# 99 Q:

And that is where we started this examination some time ago, correct?

# 100 A:

Correct.

# 101 Q:

And furthermore, you knew, Mr. Taft, when you completed this deposition, that you had the right to review it, correct?

# 102 A:

Correct.

# 103 Q:

You also knew, Mr. Taft, when you received this deposition, that you had the right, the absolute right, to make any changes at the time that you reviewed it, correct?

# 104 A:

Correct.

# 105 Q:

And you did not do so, correct?

# 106 A:

Correct.

# 107 Q:

And the truth of the matter is, Mr. Taft, that you saw a cut on Mr. Simpson's middle finger in that room, correct?

# 108 MR. BAKER:

What room?

# 109 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) In the room at Parker Center with Mr. Weitzman and yourself and Mr. Simpson. Correct?

# 110 A:

I saw a cut on his middle finger.

# 111 Q:

Correct?

# 112 A:

Is that -- is that the question?

# 113 Q:

That is a question.

# 114 A:

Yes.

# 115 Q:

And you also saw the cut on his fourth finger, did you not?

# 116 A:

No, that's not correct.

# 117 Q:

You deny that under oath?

# 118 A:

Yes, I do.

# 119 Q:

Let's take one more like look.

# 120 MR. BAKER:

Object. This is asked and answered.

# 121 MR. PETROCELLI:

Look, let me read it. It's a little easier.

# 122 MR. BAKER:

It's asked and answered.

# 123 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 124 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) I'm going to read you the whole line. It's about a page, page and a half.

Where's Exhibit 38?

# 125 MR. BAKER:

Your Honor, we've been through this on direct.

# 126 MR. PETROCELLI:

We haven't been through this before.

Depo 38. Put Depo Exhibit 38, which is the same one we put on the deposition. Keep it up on the monitor.

It's at page 131, line 23, Mr. Baker.

# 127 (Reading:)

# 128 (Reading:)

# 129 MR. BAKER:

Don't guess or speculate if you've seen that before, Mr. Petrocelli.

# 130 Q:

You said at Parker Center. A. Yeah, I believe I saw that

cut at Parker Center. Q. You recall giving that

answer while you were looking at that

picture, at the deposition? A. Correct. Q. On what day, A. The 13th. Q. You were present when

Mr. Simpson had his wound dressed? A. I wasn't present when his

wound was dressed, but I was present

when we talked about it with him alone.

He, Howard Weitzman, and myself. Q. Is that when -- A. I believe I observed it at

that time. Q. His cuts? A. Yes. Q. How many did you observe? A. Well that cut (indicating). Q. Referring to depo

Exhibit 38. A. Which I believe is on

his -- it's his fourth finger. Q. Yes. A. Fourth finger. Q. Correct. A. I saw that cut and I saw

the -- on the left hand, correct.

And then this is your answer:

# 131 (Reading:)

# 132 A:

Yeah.

# 133 Q:

So, sir, after telling me you saw the cut on the fourth finger, you pointed out to me that you saw the cut on the knuckle of his third finger, correct?

# 134 A:

Whatever the deposition says.

# 135 Q:

Is that correct?

# 136 A:

Whatever the deposition says.

# 137 Q:

Is that what you did? You told me, and then you saw the cut on the knuckle of the third finger, true?

# 138 A:

But I was referring to the picture.

# 139 Q:

True, sir?

# 140 A:

I was not referring to the June 13 physical inspection where I saw one cut.

KEY QUOTE

# 141 Q:

Excuse me, sir. Is that a knuckle right there?

# 142 A:

I don't believe so.

# 143 Q:

Okay.

So when you told me in your deposition about -- when you said, and then I saw the cut on his knuckle, on his left knuckle, you then were directing me to his middle finger, to a different cut, correct?

# 144 A:

Correct.

# 145 Q:

And, in fact, I then showed you a picture of it, right?

# 146 MR. PETROCELLI:

Let's put on depo Exhibit 31.

(Deposition Exhibit 547 displayed on the Elmo Screen.),

# 147 MR. PETROCELLI:

(Reading:) Q. Let me show you that cut.

That's depo Exhibit 31; is that right. A. Yes. Q. And you see a cut above

the knuckle? A. Yes. Q. And then one a little bit

lower than that, right? A. Right. Q. How did Mr. Simpson tell

you --

# 148 MR. PETROCELLI:

Excuse me. Question: Now, did Mr. Simpson

tell you how he got those cuts? MR. BAKER: At the time or later?

Then there's some objections which I won't repeat for the record. Is that okay, Mr. Baker?

# 149 (Continued reading as follows:)

# 150 MR. PETROCELLI:

Picking up at line 5 at 134. Q. So you saw a total of three

cuts at Parker Center on June 13 on

Mr. Simpson, on the fingers of his left

hand. Right? A. I saw for sure two. I'm

not sure of that third cut that you

pointed out in that picture. Q. The third cut you are

referring to is the one at the top of

the ring finger? A. Yeah. I don't have any clear

consciousness of that cut as I do of the

one on the fourth finger, and the one on

his middle finger knuckle.

# 151 Q:

(BY MR. PETROCELLI) Do you recall giving that testimony under oath, sir?

# 152 A:

Yes.

# 153 Q:

Do you recall it is true, as you testified under oath, that you had a clear consciousness on June 13 of the cut on the fourth finger and the cut on the middle finger, true?

# 154 A:

I didn't have a clear consciousness of it on the 13th.

KEY QUOTE

# 155 Q:

So you lied to me in your deposition?

KEY QUOTE

# 156 A:

No, I didn't lie to you.

# 157 MR. BAKER:

That's argumentative.

# 158 MR. PETROCELLI:

I have no deposition records.

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (5)

Leroy Taft

I didn't have a clear consciousness of it on the 13th.

Directly contradicts his own deposition testimony where he said he had 'clear consciousness' of cuts on two fingers — forcing Petrocelli's accusation of lying.

Daniel Petrocelli

So you lied to me in your deposition?

The sharp culmination of the entire examination — Petrocelli explicitly names the contradiction after methodically reading the deposition back to Taft.

Leroy Taft

I saw for sure two. I'm not sure of that third cut that you pointed out in that picture.

Deposition testimony read into the record establishing Taft saw at least two cuts — undermining his trial testimony of only one.

Hiroshi Fujisaki

Can I run the trial?

Fujisaki sharply rebuking Baker for directing Petrocelli where to look in the deposition transcript.

Leroy Taft

I was not referring to the June 13 physical inspection where I saw one cut.

Taft's attempted escape — claiming deposition answers about seeing two cuts were based on photos, not physical observation — but Petrocelli had already established the photo was taken at Parker Center on June 13.

Evidence (3)

Deposition Exhibit 38

Photo of Simpson's hand showing cut on fourth finger, used during Taft's deposition

Read into record to impeach trial testimony

Deposition Exhibit 31 / Deposition Exhibit 547

Photo of Simpson's left hand cuts displayed on Elmo screen

Displayed to jury while reading deposition testimony about multiple cuts

Informal

Taft's deposition transcript, pages 118–134

Read extensively to impeach testimony about number of cuts observed

Notable Exchanges (3)

Daniel Petrocelli•Robert Baker•Hiroshi Fujisaki

Baker and Petrocelli argue over how to read the deposition transcript aloud — Baker interrupting to say Petrocelli is misreading it, Petrocelli asking Baker to help find the cite, Fujisaki finally cutting both off with 'Can I run the trial?'

heated

Daniel Petrocelli•Leroy Taft

Petrocelli systematically reads back Taft's deposition testimony about two clear cuts at Parker Center, then asks whether Taft just lied in his deposition when Taft disavows the memory

devastating

Daniel Petrocelli•Robert Baker

Opening dispute over attorney-client privilege — Petrocelli arguing Baker opened the door by using the deposition; Fujisaki sustaining Baker's objection

procedural

Light Moments (1)

Robert Baker

Baker tells Petrocelli 'You want to cross-examine me?' when Petrocelli asks him to help locate the deposition cite

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Leroy Taft

prior inconsistent statement

Petrocelli read Taft's deposition testimony (pages 118–134) establishing he had 'clear consciousness' of cuts on both the fourth finger and middle finger at Parker Center on June 13, directly contradicting his trial testimony that he saw only one cut

Witness Demeanor

(Witness reviews transcript.)

Objections

7 objections (2 sustained, 4 overruled)

Proceeding 8514 • 158 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Civil Trial

Department 103