Reading of Frank Olson deposition

📄 Reading of Frank Olson deposition — Wednesday, December 4, 1996

Address:

C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1996\DEC\4\READING-OF-FRANK-OLSON-DEPOSIT.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 25 of 57

◀ Sidebar: Olson deposition objections Direct examination of Nancy Ney ▶

Witness: Frank Olson
Examiner: Dan Leonard
Date: Wednesday, December 4, 1996 • Utterances: 106

Portions of Frank Olson's deposition were read into the record by Dan Leonard (questions) and P. Baker (answers). Olson, a Hertz executive and longtime friend of Simpson, testified about a conversation he had with OJ on approximately May 16, 1994 — weeks before the murders — during which Simpson described the final end of his reconciliation with Nicole, appeared melancholy but not devastated, and discussed possibly moving to New York.

# 1 (The following proceedings were held in open court, in the presence of the jury.)

# 2 MR. LEONARD:

Can you remind me what page we left off?

# 3 MR. PETROCELLI:

At the end of the -- yeah, at end of the -- the -- at the end of the day, we left off with the last video clip, and that will conclude our presentation.

I think Mr. Leonard has some portions he wants to read in response. We're now obviously referring to the video deposition of Frank Olson.

# 4 MR. BAKER:

I thought you had five or ten minutes.

# 5 MR. PETROCELLI:

No, I've cut it out.

# 6 MR. LEONARD:

Okay.

# 7 (Portions of the deposition of Frank Olson were read into the record as follows, Mr. Leonard reading the questions and Mr. P. Baker reading the answers.)

# 8 MR. LEONARD:

Your Honor, we will be reading from the same deposition. And obviously, Mr. Baker will be playing the part of Mr. Olson.

If you could turn, please, Mr. Baker, to page 38, beginning at line 12.

MR. P. BAKER: Okay.

# 9 MR. LEONARD:

(Reading:) Is that the only -- Is that the one and only time you spoke to Nicole about the incident?

# 10 A:

Yes.

# 11 Q:

And you never spoke to Mr. Simpson again about it; is that true?

# 12 A:

No, did not have another conversation.

# 13 MR. LEONARD:

Okay. Over to page 43, line 19.

MR. P. BAKER: Okay.

# 14 Q:

And did he describe to you or say anything to you that Nicole had hit him?

# 15 A:

I don't recall the incident -- what he was saying to me was that Nicole was out of control and was damaging his Tiffany lamps and so forth, and she was just out of control.

That's -- That's -- and I don't recall him saying whether she hit him or not.

# 16 MR. LEONARD:

Okay. Over to page 53, line 8.

MR. P. BAKER: Okay.

# 17 MR. LEONARD:

(Reading:) When he returned to the subject of Nicole, did you let him talk?

# 18 A:

Yes.

# 19 Q:

And he said -- go ahead. I'm sorry.

# 20 A:

And he said essentially the same thing; he was very disappointed that it hadn't worked out; it was obvious that their reconciliation hasn't worked out.

# 21 Q:

Was this a telephone call?

# 22 A:

No, I was with him.

# 23 Q:

Where were you with him?

# 24 A:

I was with him at our golf club here in New Jersey.

# 25 Q:

You remember the date?

# 26 A:

It was sometime in May, end of May. He had come to New York to do a travel agency talk.

# 27 Q:

Would that be the ASTA regional dinner?

# 28 A:

That could be it.

# 29 Q:

Fairly significant event?

# 30 A:

Yes. Even asked to give a speech there. And that was on a Saturday evening, as I recall.

# 31 Q:

In New York City?

# 32 A:

In New York City.

And he called me on Monday morning. I did not attend the ASTA meeting. He called me on Monday morning and wanted to get together and asked if my afternoon was free. And I met him and we played golf in the afternoon at our golf club. And then I had a --

# 33 Q:

Which golf club was that -- was that?

# 34 A:

Arcola, A-R-C-O-L-A.

# 35 Q:

Did you remember the date of that?

# 36 A:

It was the Monday following that Saturday evening ASTA thing that he did. That was in May, I think.

# 37 Q:

So Saturday, 'cause May 14, then, Monday, would have been May 16?

# 38 A:

Yes, yes.

# 39 Q:

Okay. And the two of you played golf together?

# 40 A:

Played with two friends.

# 41 Q:

Who were the two friends?

# 42 A:

A fellow by the name of James Patton, P-A-T-T-O-N, and a Norman Williams.

And then following that, we stopped to have -- Patton, myself and O.J. stopped to have -- I had a Diet Coke and O.J. had a beer, and the club was closed that day, except the golf course was open, so we went down the road to a place to have a Coke and we talked for about a half an hour, then he left, went back to New York.

# 43 Q:

The conversation that you had recounted moments before about Nicole, occurred on this day?

# 44 A:

Yes.

# 45 Q:

On what we believe is May 16, on Monday?

# 46 A:

It was the Monday after that Saturday evening, yes.

# 47 Q:

And did this conversation occur with you and Mr. Simpson alone with regard -- was anyone else present?

# 48 A:

Mr. Patton was there in the beginning, but he didn't stay long.

# 49 Q:

And was this at the restaurant?

# 50 A:

It -- this was at the bar at the -- at this restaurant.

# 51 Q:

What was the name of the restaurant?

# 52 A:

I don't recall. It's not on -- I just don't recall.

# 53 Q:

Did Mr. Simpson talk about Nicole at any point in time when Mr. Patton was still there?

# 54 A:

I don't recall.

# 55 Q:

Did Mr. Simpson know Mr. Patton?

# 56 A:

Yes.

# 57 Q:

They were known -- knowing -- known each other for a long time?

# 58 A:

He knew him from playing golf with him at the club.

# 59 Q:

Arcola?

# 60 A:

Arcola.

# 61 Q:

Was this conversation at the bar at the restaurant, the first time that day Mr. Simpson spoke to you about Nicole?

# 62 A:

I don't recall.

# 63 Q:

May he have spoken to you about her while you were playing golf?

# 64 A:

He may have. O.J. always talked to me about Nicole -- Nicole, over all the years.

# 65 Q:

He had spoken to you the night before, on June -- to make arrangements to play on Monday?

# 66 A:

No. He called me Monday morning.

# 67 Q:

Monday morning?

# 68 A:

At the office.

# 69 Q:

And prior to getting the call from Mr. Simpson Monday morning, May 16, had you heard that this reconciliation attempt of his and Nicole's had failed, or did you first come to learn about it that day?

# 70 A:

I didn't know that they had reconciled again the last time, so it was all news to me. I mean, I thought they were still away, apart from each other at the time.

# 71 Q:

Did Mr. Simpson tell you the reasons why the attempted reconciliation had failed --

# 72 A:

No.

# 73 Q:

-- in his conversation with you on May 16?

# 74 A:

He did not; just said it was over, that their relationship was over.

# 75 Q:

And what was his demeanor, his facial expression, his words, led you to conclude that he was very upset about this?

# 76 A:

I didn't have the impression that he was upset. I had the impression that there was a finality to his relationship. For the first -- first time I had this -- he communicated a finality of the relationship with Nicole, and he was thinking about moving to New York and starting all over again, as opposed to staying in Los Angeles.

KEY QUOTE

# 77 Q:

Now, earlier, you testified that he seemed upset by this development.

# 78 A:

If -- I didn't realize I said that.

# 79 Q:

Yes. Let me follow up on that.

When he was relating this to you and conveying the impression that this was final, he did not appear to be happy about it, did he?

# 80 A:

No, no, he wasn't happy about it. I can't say that he was terribly distressed; I can just say that he was -- It was a different kind of emotion that I had seen from O.J. I mean, he was -- O.J. was not his usual outgoing, effusive self.

I mean, he was signing autographs for kids and talking, and a mother came up to him about her son had graduated from law school, and he wrote a note out for her, and he did all those things like he normally did, but he was -- he was more melancholy than anything. I mean, it was like a change in his life, you know, that was occurring.

# 81 Q:

Did he indicate to you, Mr. Olson why he was contemplating moving to New York from Los Angeles?

# 82 A:

He just said he wanted to get away from it all. I've forgotten exactly. I told him I thought it was a good idea.

# 83 MR. LEONARD:

Okay. Over to page 61, line 8.

Do you remember the last time, prior to the morning of May 16, when you last spoke to Mr. Simpson?

# 84 A:

I recall a conversation on the telephone, where he was obligated to do something for us that he had agreed to do. And it may have been this event. And there was something to do with the family. And he had already obligated himself to do this event, and he was -- he was calling me to -- not to get out of it, but to ask me how to handle -- was there any way he could possibly handle it with the people that he had -- that he had committed to. It may have been this event. But it was about a Hertz event. But there was a family obligation that he wanted to -- that he had fouled up by not recognizing the obligation of one of his children or both of his children, and he was committed to do this, and if there was any way he could -- any way he could -- and was there any way he could get out of it -- get out.

# 85 Q:

Get out of it?

# 86 A:

Get out of our event.

And I referred him to the person that had organized the event.

# 87 Q:

Did you tell him that he couldn't get out of it?

# 88 A:

I told him I didn't realize or know what the commitments were, and that he had to talk to the person that organized the event.

# 89 Q:

Who did you refer him to?

# 90 A:

I just don't remember which event it was.

# 91 Q:

Assuming it was the ASTA regional dinner on May 14, does that cause you to remember?

# 92 A:

That -- then it would have been Bill Maloney, who is our Vice-President of Travel Industries Sales.

# 93 Q:

What does ASTA stand for?

# 94 A:

American Society of Travel Agents.

# 95 Q:

Is that the last you heard of the question of whether he could get out of the event?

# 96 A:

Yes.

# 97 Q:

Did anybody in the company come and talk to you about it after that?

# 98 A:

I talked to -- if this was the event, I talked to whoever it was, to find out what occurred.

# 99 Q:

And what did you find out?

# 100 A:

I found out that, whatever event it was, that he was trying to avoid, that it was impossible to get out of. I mean, there were already brochures printed or something, something. There was a lot of -- There was -- it was not easy to unwind it.

I think, as I recall, the conversation was between the person and -- if it was Maloney and O.J. -- that if O.J. insisted on getting out of it, they would have released him, but it was very difficult for us as a company.

# 101 Q:

And to your knowledge, O.J. did not insist that he --

# 102 A:

No, he did not. Whatever explanation was given to him, he accepted his responsibility.

# 103 Q:

And he did not insist that he get out of it?

# 104 A:

Right.

# 105 MR. LEONARD:

That's it, Your Honor.

# 106 MR. PETROCELLI:

Nothing further.

Temperature

procedural

Key Quotes (4)

Witness

He communicated a finality of the relationship with Nicole, and he was thinking about moving to New York and starting all over again, as opposed to staying in Los Angeles.

Establishes Simpson's state of mind weeks before the murders — accepted the relationship was over rather than being in a rage about it.

Witness

O.J. was not his usual outgoing, effusive self... he was more melancholy than anything. I mean, it was like a change in his life, you know, that was occurring.

Defense-friendly characterization of Simpson's demeanor — sad and resigned, not obsessive or threatening.

Witness

Nicole was out of control and was damaging his Tiffany lamps and so forth, and she was just out of control. That's -- That's -- and I don't recall him saying whether she hit him or not.

Simpson's account of the 1989 domestic violence incident to Olson frames Nicole as the aggressor, relevant to domestic violence thread.

Witness

I didn't have the impression that he was upset. I had the impression that there was a finality to his relationship.

Olson walks back earlier testimony suggesting Simpson seemed upset, offering a more nuanced reading that cuts against the stalker/obsession narrative.

Notable Exchanges (2)

Dan Leonard•Daniel Petrocelli

Brief exchange at the start clarifying where the video deposition left off and that Petrocelli had cut his remaining portion, leaving only Leonard's read-in segments.

routine

Examiner•Witness

Examiner presses Olson on whether Simpson 'seemed upset,' and Olson corrects the characterization — he said 'melancholy,' not upset or distressed — a subtle but meaningful distinction for the defense.

strategic

Credibility Attacks (1)

⚔ Frank Olson

prior inconsistent statement

Examiner notes Olson had 'earlier testified that he seemed upset by this development,' prompting Olson to clarify and walk back that characterization — he said 'melancholy,' not upset.

Objections

None recorded

Proceeding 8467 • 106 utterances

Civil Trial

Department 103