Redirect examination of Albert Aguilera (part 2)

📄 Redirect examination of Albert Aguilera (part 2) — Tuesday, December 3, 1996

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C:\DEPT103\CIVIL\1996\DEC\3\REDIRECT-EXAMINATION-OF-ALBERT.DOC

TRIAL

▲ Day 24 of 57

◀ Sidebar: custody proceeding testimony Redirect examination of Albert Aguilera ▶

Witness: Albert Aguilera
Examiner: John Kelly
Called by: Plaintiff • Date: Tuesday, December 3, 1996 • Utterances: 186

Defense attorney Robert Baker cross-examines Albert Aguilera, who claims to have witnessed OJ Simpson physically assault Nicole Brown Simpson at Victoria Beach in 1986. Baker methodically attacks the witness's credibility by exposing date contradictions between Aguilera's current testimony (July 1st) and his December 1994 DA statement (July 3rd or 4th), as well as questioning whether Aguilera could have perceived what he claims from 90-120 feet away in the surf. The examination ends with Baker highlighting Aguilera's media appearances (CBS This Morning, LA Times) and his failure to challenge the DA transcript until the week of trial.

# 1 (The following proceedings were held in open court in the presence of the jury.)

# 2 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Now, this event that you say you witnessed was July 4, 1986, right?

# 3 A:

No.

# 4 Q:

When was it?

# 5 A:

Approximately two or three days before.

# 6 Q:

You told -- well, strike that.

By the way, you didn't report this to the LAPD, did you? It was your ex-wife that did, true?

# 7 A:

No.

# 8 Q:

You're saying you reported it to the LAPD, your purported viewing of this incident, Mr. Aguilera?

# 9 A:

I didn't report it to the LAPD.

# 10 Q:

You had a statement taken by the D.A's office, did you not?

# 11 A:

Yes.

# 12 Q:

On December 17, 1994?

# 13 A:

Correct.

# 14 Q:

I take it that your recollection of this incident that occurred two or three days before July 4th of 1986 was better than it is now?

# 15 A:

No.

# 16 Q:

You told the interviewer that it was -- you're pretty sure it was 1987, when you were interviewed in December of 1994, correct?

# 17 A:

No.

# 18 Q:

Let me read from your statement. Page 1.

# 19 MR. PETROCELLI:

Object. This is not his statement. This is -- there's got to be some foundation laid that he saw this, reviewed this, and so forth.

# 20 THE COURT:

Sustained.

Lay a foundation.

# 21 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Were you investigated by Investigator Mike Stevens, with Investigator Dana Thompson, on December 17, 1994 at approximately 3:25 p.m.?

# 22 A:

Yes.

# 23 MR. KELLY:

Objection --

# 24 MR. PETROCELLI:

He said investigated.

# 25 MR. KELLY:

Form. Investigated.

# 26 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 27 MR. BAKER:

I'm sorry.

# 28 MR. KELLY:

You said investigated.

# 29 MR. BAKER:

I apologize; I misspoke.

# 30 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Were you interviewed by Investigator Mike Stevens, with Investigator Dana Thompson, on December 17, 1994 at 3:25 p.m. in the afternoon?

# 31 A:

Yes.

# 32 Q:

And you were aware that a recorded statement was being taken of what you were -- the questions that were being asked of you and the answers you were giving, true?

# 33 A:

Correct.

# 34 Q:

And you were asked about this purported incident that you say you witnessed in 1986, right?

# 35 A:

Correct.

# 36 Q:

And you told the investigators that you were pretty sure it was 1987, isn't that true?

# 37 A:

No.

# 38 Q:

Okay.

And have you -- you've seen the transcript of your interview, have you not?

# 39 A:

Yes.

# 40 Q:

And I'm showing you a copy of the transcript of your interview, correct?

# 41 A:

Um-hum.

# 42 Q:

And when you were asked about the incident you observed, what year, you said, I'm pretty sure it was '87, did you not?

# 43 MR. KELLY:

Can you continue reading, Mr. Baker.

# 44 MR. BAKER:

Let me ask these questions, will you, Mr. Kelly.

# 45 THE COURT:

Sustained.

You may proceed.

# 46 A:

At that time, yes.

# 47 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) And you -- you told them that it was the 4th of July, or the day before the 4th, correct?

# 48 A:

No.

# 49 Q:

You want to read what you told them?

# 50 A:

I know what's on there. That isn't what I told them.

# 51 Q:

So the transcript of the investigators is incorrect, true?

# 52 A:

There's quite a few inaccuracies in that transcript.

KEY QUOTE

# 53 Q:

So -- and the reason that you now say that it's incorrect is because you subsequently learned, did you not, that O.J. Simpson was never in Victoria Beach on July 3, July 4 of any year, because he was hosting a charity softball game; isn't that true?

# 54 A:

That's not true, no.

# 55 Q:

Of course if Mr. Simpson were hosting a charity softball game on July 3 and July 4, you couldn't have seen him at Victoria Beach. You would agree with that?

# 56 MR. KELLY:

Objection, argumentative.

# 57 THE COURT:

Sustained.

# 58 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Now let's talk a little bit about what you say you purportedly observed.

Now, it's three days or so before July 4, is that it, sir?

# 59 A:

Yes, that's correct.

# 60 Q:

And you were 15 to 20 yards from the water, right?

# 61 A:

Yes.

# 62 Q:

Now, this purported day that you say you saw this, July 1 or whatever it was -- what day of the week was that, sir?

# 63 A:

It was about Wednesday, Wednesday or the day before.

# 64 Q:

And it wasn't the holiday weekend, then, huh?

# 65 A:

Well, it was -- the holiday weekend was coming up. 4th of July was Saturday.

# 66 Q:

Well, was there a lot of people around the beach -- that beach is pretty crowded, isn't it, in July?

# 67 A:

No, it's not.

# 68 MR. KELLY:

Objection, argumentative. Time frame, Your Honor.

# 69 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 70 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) The houses are 60 feet wide and they adjoin each other along the whole beach, don't they, sir?

# 71 A:

That's true.

# 72 Q:

And the people can walk out of their houses on the beach, can they not, sir?

# 73 A:

Yes.

# 74 Q:

And there are generally a lot of people and kids playing in the summer, during the time period that you say you observed this incident, isn't that true, sir?

# 75 A:

Not generally, no.

# 76 Q:

You say it's untrue that there are a lot of people on the beach in July, say July 2, 3 or 4, 1986?

# 77 MR. KELLY:

Objection, argumentative, Your Honor. We need specific date and time and place; not generally.

# 78 THE COURT:

I'll sustain the objection.

# 79 MR. BAKER:

On what grounds sir?

# 80 THE COURT:

Specificity.

# 81 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Early July -- had you ever been on that beach in early July before this purported time that you say you saw Nicole Brown Simpson in 1986, sir?

# 82 A:

Yes.

# 83 Q:

And is it your testimony as you -- or before this jury today, that you believe that beach is an uncrowded beach in the July time frame?

# 84 MR. KELLY:

Objection, vague, argumentative.

# 85 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 86 A:

Yes.

# 87 Q:

And so were you and this friend of yours, who isn't available to testify, did you see anybody else on the beach that day besides you two?

# 88 A:

There were a few people on the beach, yes.

# 89 Q:

Were there any other witnesses to this event -- strike that.

How long is Victoria Beach, Mr. Aguilera?

# 90 A:

It's about, I'd say, 400 yards at the most.

# 91 Q:

And how deep is it till the houses start?

# 92 A:

Another 50 yards from the water, I think.

# 93 Q:

And so there's -- and that's all sand, isn't it, up to those houses?

# 94 A:

Yes.

# 95 Q:

And that's a beach that's used not only by the people that live there, but by people who park their cars and walk into that beach area, correct?

# 96 A:

They can.

# 97 MR. KELLY:

Objection, argumentative, vague.

# 98 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 99 A:

If they can find parking, yes.

# 100 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) And that beach is a pretty popular beach down in Laguna, is it not?

# 101 A:

I wouldn't say it's real popular, no.

# 102 Q:

What was the -- you were out, in the water was it -- you say 15 to 20 yards from the waterline to where you and this friend of yours were walking, right?

# 103 A:

Right.

# 104 Q:

And you say that Nicole Brown Simpson and O.J. Simpson were 150 to 180 feet away from you, correct?

# 105 MR. KELLY:

Objection, misstates the testimony.

# 106 A:

No.

# 107 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) You said 50 to 60 yards away. That's what you testified to?

# 108 A:

When I first saw them, not when we were right in front of them, no.

# 109 Q:

So you were in the water, Nicole Brown Simpson was not facing you, and you say that you observed her teasing Mr. Simpson, right?

# 110 A:

Yes.

# 111 Q:

You didn't see her face?

# 112 A:

No.

# 113 Q:

You didn't -- couldn't hear her because there were waves breaking and they were a distance away from you, correct?

# 114 A:

Yes.

# 115 Q:

So you didn't hear her and you couldn't see her, but you knew she was teasing you (sic), right?

KEY QUOTE

# 116 A:

Yes.

# 117 Q:

Okay.

This transcript is incorrect although there is an audio tape of this, isn't there?

# 118 A:

I think so.

# 119 Q:

And you're sure on that audio tape that you didn't say the 3rd or the 4th of July, correct?

# 120 A:

I don't recall, no.

# 121 Q:

Well, let's get this straight. This is important.

You've testified here in questions I've asked you, sir, that it -- and the questions that Mr. Kelly asked you about July 1, and this transcript of your recorded statement to the police in December of 1994 indicates July 3 or July 4.

Now, which was it?

# 122 A:

1st.

# 123 Q:

You're sure of that?

# 124 A:

It wasn't the 4th or the 3rd, I'm sure of that, yes.

# 125 Q:

And you're sure that on the audio tape it is going to say, not July 3 or 4th, that was a mistake, it's going to say July 1, right?

# 126 A:

It will say -- it will be -- the audio will back me up, but I wasn't sure which date it was. It wasn't the 4th or the 3rd.

# 127 Q:

You never mentioned July 1, at any time, to the Los Angeles Police Department on December 17, 1994, did you, sir?

# 128 A:

I didn't talk to the Los Angeles Police Department.

# 129 Q:

The investigators. Pardon me.

# 130 A:

They were from the D.A.'s office.

# 131 Q:

The investigators?

# 132 A:

Yes.

# 133 Q:

You never mentioned July 1 at all, did you, sir?

# 134 A:

No, that's not true.

# 135 Q:

The fact that it doesn't appear anyplace, you still believe that you mentioned it was July 1, 1986, as contrasted to another date?

# 136 A:

That's correct.

# 137 Q:

All right.

Now, you indicated to the investigators that you were 30 to 40 yards away from them at the time you observed the incident, correct?

# 138 A:

It's approximate.

# 139 Q:

You were 90 to 120 feet away from these two individuals?

# 140 A:

Possibly closer to 20 yards.

# 141 Q:

Well, you said, when you were asked, and how far again were you now approximately 30 to 40 yards away, but directly in front. That's what you told the police or the investigators -- D.A. investigators on December 17, 1994, correct?

# 142 A:

That's about right.

# 143 Q:

And so, as I understand it, Nicole Brown Simpson, according to your testimony, never even turned around while you were out in the water, waves are breaking, Mr. Simpson and Nicole Brown Simpson are up on the sand some 90 to 120 feet away, and you hear what they say; is that right?

# 144 A:

I didn't hear what she said, no.

# 145 Q:

Well, I thought you said you heard -- well, strike that.

Is it your testimony now you didn't hear any comments of Nicole Brown Simpson?

# 146 A:

No, I didn't hear any conversation.

# 147 Q:

Is it your testimony, sir, that when you were 90 to 120 feet away out in the water, surf breaking, and the Simpsons are in front of you, that you heard or didn't hear anything that was said between the two of them, yes or no?

# 148 A:

I heard -- I heard some things, yes.

# 149 Q:

So you heard, as you testified here, Nicole Brown Simpson say no, no, in a crying voice in between the surf, and being 90 and 120 feet away, you could discern all of that, right?

# 150 A:

I was pretty focused at this time.

KEY QUOTE

# 151 Q:

You could discern all of it, you heard what she said, you noticed the connotation that it was a crying voice, you knew all of that from your location 90 to 120 feet away, right?

# 152 A:

Yes.

# 153 Q:

All right. Thank you.

Now, and you observed Mr. Simpson stay there, you say, after -- a while after Nicole Brown Simpson left the area?

# 154 A:

Yes.

# 155 Q:

Okay.

Let me show you this page 2 of the statement and ask you if you remember the question asked by Investigator Stevens, where he says do you remember the specific date, month and day.

Do you remember your response to that?

# 156 A:

That isn't accurate, what it says there.

# 157 Q:

Is it your testimony -- your response, according to the transcript of the tape, that you had seen before you testified today was, quote, it was either the 4th of July morning or the day before the 4th of July, correct? That's what this transcript indicates, true?

# 158 A:

That's what is says there, yes.

# 159 Q:

And you, of course, say now, that you would never say -- have said that it was the 3rd or the 4th of July, correct?

# 160 A:

Correct.

# 161 Q:

Okay.

And you don't know why that it appears in two places in the matter of about 10 questions, the 3rd and 4th of July, as contrasted to what you now say is the date, that being the 1st of July, right?

# 162 A:

I can't account for that, no.

KEY QUOTE

# 163 Q:

And you have no explanation for that at all, right?

# 164 A:

No.

# 165 Q:

And by the way, sir, how many television shows have you been on relative to this purported story of July 4, 1986?

# 166 MR. KELLY:

Objection, relevance.

# 167 THE COURT:

Overruled.

# 168 A:

Zero.

# 169 Q:

(BY MR. BAKER) Well, how about "CBS This Morning," the name of the show being "CBS This Morning," you been on that show?

# 170 A:

They taped me on my beach.

# 171 Q:

Well, didn't you think that when they taped you on your beach, that you were going to be on the show?

# 172 A:

I thought you were referring if I was in the studio. They interviewed me.

# 173 Q:

And you haven't shied away from publicity in this case, have you, sir?

# 174 A:

That's not true.

# 175 Q:

How about the "L.A. Times," did you grant them an interview telling your purported story?

# 176 A:

Yes.

# 177 Q:

Did you ever -- after you saw the transcript that I put in front of you at least three times today, did you ever ask anybody from the LA D.A.'s office to change any of the remarks that are attributed to you in that statement?

# 178 A:

Those are -- those remarks, the first time I saw them was last week sometime.

# 179 Q:

Did you ever ask anybody from the LA D.A.'s office to change any of the remarks that were attributed to you in that statement?

# 180 A:

Never had an opportunity.

# 181 Q:

In the last week, you have never had an opportunity and you've never asked to hear the same tape?

# 182 A:

First time I --

# 183 MR. KELLY:

Objection.

# 184 A:

-- Wednesday morning.

# 185 THE COURT:

Excuse me.

# 186 MR. BAKER:

I don't have anything further of this witness.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. KELLY:

Temperature

tense

Key Quotes (4)

Albert Aguilera

There's quite a few inaccuracies in that transcript.

Aguilera disputes his own recorded DA statement, undercutting his credibility when the transcript directly contradicts his testimony.

Albert Aguilera

I was pretty focused at this time.

Aguilera's explanation for being able to hear Nicole's words through breaking surf from 90-120 feet away — a weak response to Baker's pointed credibility attack.

Robert Baker

So you didn't hear her and you couldn't see her, but you knew she was teasing you (sic), right?

Baker's sharp summary of the logical contradiction in Aguilera's observation — he claimed to perceive teasing without seeing Nicole's face or hearing her clearly.

Albert Aguilera

I can't account for that, no.

Aguilera cannot explain why the date 'July 3rd or 4th' appears twice in his 1994 statement when he now insists it was July 1st.

Evidence (2)

Informal

Transcript of Aguilera's December 17, 1994 recorded interview with DA Investigators Mike Stevens and Dana Thompson

Used by Baker to impeach Aguilera on date (July 3/4 vs. July 1) and year (1987 vs. 1986) of alleged incident

Informal

Audio tape of the December 17, 1994 DA interview

Referenced but not played; Baker implies it will corroborate the transcript, Aguilera claims it will support him

Notable Exchanges (4)

Robert Baker•Albert Aguilera

Baker walks through the physical impossibility of Aguilera's claim: Nicole never faced him, surf was breaking, they were 90-120 feet away, yet Aguilera says he heard her say 'no, no' in a crying voice and perceived emotional teasing.

devastating

Robert Baker•Albert Aguilera

Baker confronts Aguilera with the fact that 'July 3rd or 4th' appears twice in his 1994 statement but he now insists the date was July 1st — and Aguilera cannot explain the discrepancy.

strategic

Robert Baker•Albert Aguilera

Baker raises OJ Simpson's charity softball game as proof Simpson could not have been at Victoria Beach on July 3-4; Aguilera denies the premise but objection is sustained before Baker can press further.

heated

Robert Baker•John Kelly

Kelly interrupts Baker's reading of the transcript telling him to 'continue reading'; Baker shoots back 'Let me ask these questions, will you, Mr. Kelly.' Judge sustains and allows Baker to proceed.

testy

Credibility Attacks (4)

⚔ Albert Aguilera

prior inconsistent statement

Baker repeatedly confronts Aguilera with his December 17, 1994 recorded DA statement, which lists the date as 'July 3rd or 4th' and the year as 1987 — both contradicting Aguilera's current testimony of July 1st, 1986.

⚔ Albert Aguilera

physical impossibility / perception challenge

Baker establishes Aguilera was 90-120 feet away in the surf, Nicole was not facing him, and he admits he couldn't see her face or clearly hear her — yet claims to have perceived a domestic assault with emotional detail.

⚔ Albert Aguilera

bias / publicity-seeking

Baker elicits that Aguilera gave an interview to the LA Times and was taped by CBS This Morning, and that he only first reviewed the contradicting transcript the week before testimony — suggesting he tailored his story and sought attention.

⚔ Albert Aguilera

missing corroborating witness

Baker notes that the friend Aguilera was with at the beach 'isn't available to testify,' leaving his account uncorroborated.

Objections

10 objections (4 sustained, 4 overruled)

Proceeding 8427 • 186 utterances • Plaintiff witness

Civil Trial

Department 103