Call Herb MacDonell.

HERBERT LEON MacDONELL, called as a witness on behalf of Defendants, was duly sworn and testified as follows:

You do solemnly swear that the testimony you may give in the cause now pending before this court shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

I do, yes.

Please, state and spell both your first and your last names for the record.

Herbert Leon MacDonell. Last name M-a-c-D-o-n-e-l-l.

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. BAKER:

Sir, where do you reside?

Corning, New York.

What is your occupation, sir?

I'm a forensic scientist, specifically a criminalist, involved in examining physical evidence, evaluating it, and hopefully, the reconstruction of prior events.

And your position at the laboratory is what, sir?

I'm director of a small forensic laboratory, a consulting laboratory, which is available to both prosecution and defense in criminal cases, for the plaintiff and defense in civil cases.

And you direct that laboratory, do you not, sir?

Yes, I do.

And do you have --

Well, tell us about your undergraduate degree.

I went to Alfred University, which is also in upstate New York. I received my bachelor of arts degree, with a major in chemistry, and a minor in mathematics. And I have a BA degree.

And do you have any graduate degrees, sir?

Yes. I have a master of science, with a major in analytical chemistry and a minor in physics from the University of Rhode Island.

And do you have any other formal education beyond the bachelor's degree and the master's degree in science?

Yes, I do.

I've attended many seminars and programs of up to, in one case, ten months in duration, and under the Attorney General, State of Rhode Island, in a course known as criminalistics.

I've attended many analytical chemistry symposiums and courses dealing with forensic science in particular, and analytical chemistry generally. These have been at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and other universities.

And I've also attended many police programs under the New York State -- it's called the Municipal Police Training Council. It's been a while since I took that course; I think it was 1964.

I've also taken the same thing at the University of Pennsylvania State Police and other police-oriented programs, as well as forensic science.

And have you taught, Mr. McDonell?

Yes, I have.

Tell us -- please relate to us what teaching experience you have had, what -- what institutions and what courses you taught.

I began teaching, other than graduate assistant work, at Alfred. I began teaching in Milton, Wisconsin as a professor of chemistry and head of the chemistry department for three years, between 1951 and '54. Then did two more years of graduate study at Rhode Island, where I was an assistant in the analytical chemistry department.

I began teaching at Corning Community College in 1960, offering courses in police science. I taught there till 1992, with a five-year sabbatical between about 1972 and '77.

I also taught at Elmira College, a four-year institution in upstate New York, where I taught a total of ten different courses in forensic science. And that was between 1972 and 1983.

I've since conducted an institute specializing in the direction metric interpretation, or the study of appearance of blood, to determine the possible causes that produce these blood-stain appearances. These are one-week institutes.

I have running now, 46 of them: One in Australia, one in Sweden, and the other 44 within the continental United States.

And can you relate to us what industrial experience you've had?

I was employed by the DuPont Company, as a research analytical chemist in Philadelphia, to one year following graduate school at Rhode Island. And I then went to Corning, New York, and worked in the analytical department. I was there for 15 years, developing methods of analysis for glass and other materials.

Tell us what experience you've had in the field of scientific crime investigation, please.

While I was in graduate school, I was employed by the Attorney General as a forensic scientist for the two years there.

I began consulting after the learning experience and work experience I had in the crime lab, quite a bit, off and on, up to 1958, when I began doing it quite extensively.

I had done a lot of writing, and I guess I was becoming somewhat known, so people called me. And from 1970 on, when I had the laboratory constructed which is the lower level of a large structure -- the upper level is all living facilities -- so we either have a laboratory in the lower level and live in the laboratory, or the laboratory's in our home, whichever way -- whichever floor you're on.

So I began doing a lot of consulting then, and have ever since consulted, so far, I think, 13 foreign countries and all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

Do you belong to any professional societies?

Yes, quite a few.

Please tell us the major ones.

I'm a member of the American Academy of Forensic Science. I have been, since 1964, a fellow in that organization, over 32 years now.

I belong to the British and Canadian Societies of Forensic Science, and to many specific organizations within the general field of forensic science, dealing with criminalistics: Fingerprint identification, firearms identification, and many teaching associations in that field.

Have you ever written or authored any technical articles on forensic science, sir?

Yes, I have.

Tell us about how many.

I know I've written well over 100 articles that have been published dealing with forensic science.

I have written about five books on blood-stain pattern interpretation, and many chapters in other people's books where they were the editor, in Canada and the United States, on blood-stain pattern interpretation.

Have you ever lectured on the subject of forensic science before any professionally recognized organizations?

Yes, many times.

How many?

I've documented over 600 that I know of, and I'm sure I missed a few.

All right.

Are you certified by any recognized forensic organization, Mr. McDonell?

Yes. I'm certified -- and still am -- by the International Association for Identification as a Senior Crime Scene Analyst.

Tell us what experience you've had with human blood evidence.

I began working with human blood during my master's thesis at the University of Rhode Island, where I developed a new method, actually, for typing blood, using what is called today, immunoelectrophoresis. At this time, that word had not yet be coined. It was used by the French for six years after I published my thesis, or had it written. It was never actually published.

The subject of blood stains has always interested me from the standpoint of physics to determine from the static aftermath of an event that caused blood shed, what are the possibilities that could have caused that blood-stain pattern.

And I became interested very much, in 1966, when I had a case with a lot of blood and I couldn't understand it. And I since researched the literature and found many other people over the years, going way back, had the same experience: They recognized there was something there they did not understand, so they conducted research.

And that is precisely what I did. I was not original in it; it is not something that I did. I had cases to go back to, 1514 in England, showing blood-stain patterns being recognized for their significance.

Simply stated, to make it very simple, I did research for the government under the Department of Justice on a project known as flight characteristics and stain patterns of human blood in the years 1969 to '71, published a report that was in print by the Superintendent of Documents for over 12 years, distributed worldwide. And then as a result of that, was asked to begin teaching the subject, and that is what I have done, outlining the institutes. I have been working with it, literally, since 1954.

And who attends these institutes that you put on for blood stains?

Basically, they're crime-scene technicians; they're people that would go to a scene, investigate, and try to understand what had occurred.

They would be homicide investigators. I'm getting quite a few forensic pathologists. These people come from all over the world. I'm getting attorneys, and we've had veterinarians. We've had a wide variety of people, including forensic odontologists or bite mark people to better understand what this blood means or what it could mean.

And in your experience, have you ever had the opportunity, and actually presented expert testimony on the subject of human blood-stain evidence interpretation?

Yes, I have.

How many times have you testified on human blood-stain evidence interpretation?

Just on blood stain, I don't honestly know. I would estimate certainly, 175 times. I know it's been in over -- in over 35 states and two foreign countries.

When were you first retained in the O.J. Simpson matter?

'94?

'94.

(Continuing.) 1994. That was through a phone call that I received.

I was not actually retained, as such, until, of course, I received a retainer some couple of months later, I think.

And you were offered to the District Attorney and the Los Angeles D.A.'s office to assist in the investigation of this case?

Objection. Relevance, materiality, hearsay, Your Honor.

Overruled. It's preliminary.

I'm sorry?

(BY MR. BAKER) Your services were offered to investigate this crime to Los Angeles Police Department, as well as the L.A. District Attorney's office, by and through Mr. Simpson; isn't that correct?

Well, by "you," you mean --

Well, that I'll sustain.

Resume your examination.

You're --

I'm not sure I understand the question. I was made available?

The question is not pending, Doctor.

(BY MR. BAKER) You were made available to the L.A. --

Objection.

Objection sustained. And that question is not pending.

(BY MR. BAKER) Is this a copy of your C.V.?

Yes, it is.

Next number.

2266.

(BY MR. BAKER) Now, in terms of --

You testified in the criminal trial, did you not?

Yes, I did.

You have reviewed various photographs of the crime scene, have you not, sir?

Yes.

And you have done interpretations relative to blood-stain and blood-pattern evidence from this?